Mr. Bucket Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 As I was reading this I was thinking: at what point is an item considered "hard to sell?" Unusuals unsold for a couple days are not considered valid proof, so should other items in the similar price range be treated the same way? If so, what is the minimum price something must be to be considered a hard sell? How long will these trades have to be active before being criteria for suggestion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 As I was reading this I was thinking: at what point is an item considered "hard to sell?" Unusuals unsold for a couple days are not considered valid proof, so should other items in the similar price range be treated the same way? If so, what is the minimum price something must be to be considered a hard sell? How long will these trades have to be active before being criteria for suggestion? Hard to sell would be the definition for an item with little to no demand. Price has nothing to do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminal Inhalation Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Length of time + offers vs. price Yes, they should as they tend to take the same amount of time. Don't really think there should be a minimum price, as long as the price is accurate it should be fine. Unless i'm reading this part wrong. Depends really, within the area of 1 week-1 months pending on the item + price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Delicious Cashew Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 I would say anything above a bud is hard to sell. The minimum time should be 6+ days unsold at the same price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Bucket Posted May 31, 2014 Author Share Posted May 31, 2014 Hard to sell would be the definition for an item with little to no demand. Price has nothing to do with it. Maybe I wasn't very clear. Unusuals have demand, but they don't sell as fast compared to normal items. The reason is because unusuals are much more pricey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted May 31, 2014 Share Posted May 31, 2014 Maybe I wasn't very clear. Unusuals have demand, but they don't sell as fast compared to normal items. The reason is because unusuals are much more pricey. Then yeah, I'd go with what SSJ5 said, Demand vs Price. I'd say anything above maybe a bud or two with low demand would be considered hard to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTPN Blazing Sound Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Does this count? (My trade btw) I had a guy add me offering 2 keys today and he was the last offer I had in months. http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16133888 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krawtch Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Hard to sell items makes me think of things like collectors items (vintages, odd level/craft, and actual collectors quality) or promo items like Holiday Headcase. Also things that have no purpose existing other than being worth a lot, like Vintage Scrap Metals and Glitched Circuitboards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitteh #Everybodys Friend Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Collectors and Vintages, not even possibleu to sell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctively Vincent Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 While there will always be special case situations, the important goal here is to find a solution for the issue brought up in the linked suggestion that can be applied broadly with hard, established numbers. There is concern in the suggestion over leading the market and over the use of unsolds. Two possible solutions are: 1. A cooldown. If so, how long, for what minimum price of item, and for what size of a suggested price change? 2. Alteration to use of unsolds for higher price items. If so, what will be the minimum price it applies to and what duration of time before an unsold is valid? And then, of course, there's always room for a new, unique solution, if anyone has any proposals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Jesus Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I'd consider not using unsolds for proof then. A price suggestion *should* be solid enough with actual sales imo. There could be 1000 reasons why an item didn't sell for a price, within a time frame, etc. Trying to figure out what qualifies an unsold to be valid proof, is already hard enough when we attempt to figure it out without strict definitions. Actually defining what should count would be a massive headache, and would still be a subjective process (unusuals get a longer period, stranges with parts get a longer period, etc) If there's not enough data from sales, or the market is 90% unsolds, then consider not accepting a suggestion until more of them sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slocumruls Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I'd consider not using unsolds for proof then. A price suggestion *should* be solid enough with actual sales imo. There could be 1000 reasons why an item didn't sell for a price, within a time frame, etc. Trying to figure out what qualifies an unsold to be valid proof, is already hard enough when we attempt to figure it out without strict definitions. Actually defining what should count would be a massive headache, and would still be a subjective process (unusuals get a longer period, stranges with parts get a longer period, etc) If there's not enough data from sales, or the market is 90% unsolds, then consider not accepting a suggestion until more of them sell. I completely agree. The use of unsolds causes bp.tf to lead the market in many cases (or in the case of third gen unusuals to not really cut the price enough when updating). Simply do not use unsolds as proof for lowering an item. Even with a supreme commodity item like keys or tickets finding proof of sales at a lower range shouldn't be hard if they are actually happening. Using unsolds as proof causes updates of prices without the price actually being proven as a viable selling or buying point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoDoRiN Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Alright, here's my two cents... I think the main problem here is that they are being constantly lowered by buyouts, instead of defined sales. Because prices are constantly accepted via unsold buyouts instead of defined sales, that naturally causes backpack.tf to be behind, which is the main reason why the vintage prices on hats are so unreliable. There is a reason why unsold buyouts are no longer valid proof alone for unusuals. And the more suggestions being accepted by buyouts, the more backpack.tf gets behind, causing the illusion of backpack.tf "leading" the market, when actuality backpack.tf is really behind and the true market value can only be found to people that search for defined sales. No, I'm not buying "it's hard to sell" excuse. When kritz reached to low 30 keys and jumped to 50 keys, kritz were selling pretty well at the suggested price slightly higher. (less than 3 days afaik) Demand can do whatever it wants. tl;dr, backpack.tf is not leading the market, it's just severely behind. What I think can solve the problem is using a bigger bump. Two examples I can think of. http://backpack.tf/stats/Strange/Kritzkrieg/Tradable/Craftable - In Jan 8th, kritz was 40-42 keys and then in Jan 15 it got a fat bump to 48-51. Then it had a couple adjustments here and there, but it had a stable price for a whopping 4 months. http://backpack.tf/stats/Unique/Mann%20Co.%20Supply%20Crate%20Key/Tradable/Craftable/0 - when keys got the biggest bump ever to this date, (6.44-6.55 to 6.77-6.88) it had one more adjustment to 7 months flat and had the longest stable price according to the chart, whopping 2 months. Of course, there are a few exceptions here and there, but it's the TF2 economy, anything can happen. I'm just basing it off of what I think is most logical. I think the prime solution with no silly cooldown rule or whatever shenanigans would be not accepting too conservative bumps. All the cooldown rule does to my eyes is making backpack.tf more unreliable and ignoring the true market price.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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