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trade.tf's pricesheet


Jymotion

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Oh shiz. Fully automatic? Time to manipulate like hell.

Does the price include every trade type; resellers, quickbuyers, quicksellers.  There are a lot of those so that effects the result. 

Does it count when I transfer items from one alt to another.  That would be whacky.  Imagine transferring an unusual for nothing.

 

It uses median values, not averages.  also, no unusuals.

 

It includes item trading which can be very sketchy.  What if there is a multi-item trade?  How does it know which values to assign?

 

check out the "mathematical model" part of the faq

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It uses median values, not averages.  also, no unusuals.

 

 

check out the "mathematical model" part of the faq

Unusuals would be a completely different cup of tea and I think backpack handles them semi-decently.

I might use this in some of my suggestions given I'd have to know a little bit more about the prices.

 

Are median values better or worse than averages and are these medians going by what the person is selling by or sold trades?

This could be very interesting, thank you jymotion for introducing me to this.

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Are median values better or worse than averages?

 

Better, in that it is much less sensitive to outliers.  Since it chooses the middle value instead of the average of all of them, it will hardly be effected if someone buys an item for 10x what it is worth.  Swag says it more elegantly in the faq.

 

 

Are these medians going by what the person is selling by or sold trades?

 

This is based on completed trades, which are recorded based on changes in scanned backpacks.  The "Good Deals" section and the price list operate completely separately/differently.

 

and no problem.  sorry if it seems like im a spokesperson for it or something.  I'm just interested to see how this will work out, so I'm hoping people won't outright dismiss it.

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Better, in that it is much less sensitive to outliers.  Since it chooses the middle value instead of the average of all of them, it will hardly be effected if someone buys an item for 10x what it is worth.  Swag says it more elegantly in the faq.

 

 

 

This is based on completed trades, which are recorded based on changes in scanned backpacks.  The "Good Deals" section and the price list operate completely separately/differently.

 

and no problem.  sorry if it seems like im a spokesperson for it or something.  I'm just interested to see how this will work out, so I'm hoping people won't outright dismiss it.

No worries. It's always nice to see something new to the table. I'll try to incorporate this into future suggestions.

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It will be super-lol when sales or re-releases happens but other than that its quite amazing and I will definately use it as reference material.

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See, this will never work. . . For this reason alone: Faking trades, faking many trades to manipulate the "automated" system, which could potentially throw the market into chaos if enough people respected and used this system.

 

By fake trades, I don't mean two average joe blows faking a trade as a joke, I mean an organization forming together making offers on outpost and fixing their prices and getting accepted by their own.

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See, this will never work. . . For this reason alone: Faking trades, faking many trades to manipulate the "automated" system, which could potentially throw the market into chaos if enough people respected and used this system.

 

By fake trades, I don't mean two average joe blows faking a trade as a joke, I mean an organization forming together making offers on outpost and fixing their prices and getting accepted by their own.

 

you think that would go undetected?

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Teeird,

 

this happened with steam with the russian key event. This happened in Wall Street. Neither steam nor Wall Street stopped monitoring stock prices in favor of a price voting system.

 

Every system has its flaws.

 

However, we're in luck, we have both. There's trade.tf that reports one source of information from automatic trading, and there's also backpack.tf that reports information from consensus voting. This combination allows traders to cross-reference prices and be better informed. So everybody wins, especiallly if they use the 3rd and most important tool: their brain.

 

That's why I made the statement that trade.tf is not backpack.tf's competition, it's complementary.

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So are we going to use trade.tf as proof now?

 

it should never be the only proof, as that would eliminate the whole transparency part of bp.tf, but I'll certainly be including it in future suggestions

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So are we going to use trade.tf as proof now?

I feel as if it's going to be a tf2finance thing (It can be used, but it can't be your only source).  Although I believe it would have to wait until a function is added to see the volume of how many were traded on the graph to be able to accurately use it as proof.

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I feel as if it's going to be a tf2finance thing (It can be used, but it can't be your only source).  Although I believe it would have to wait until a function is added to see the volume of how many were traded on the graph to be able to accurately use it as proof.

How many and when.

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I don't have an opinion whether the spreadsheet should be as evidence.

 

However, in completely different way the good deals section can provide a lot of evidence by searching at what prices is an item selling (we don't typically keep trades older than 48 hours btw), for example I searched for the B.M.O.C:

http://www.trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/B.M.O.C./all/1

 

And I can find quite a few selling/sold at 11 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394622

http://www.trade.tf/trade/515977553

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10384586

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382199

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381384

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381033

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516094732

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10366962

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516071795

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516056156

 

Then there are also plenty listed for 12 keys, some for 13.

 

Obviously, since backpack.tf uses tf2outpost as well as backpack.tf classified as evidence, that's a lot of evidence that you can gather easily by just going through the deals (which also contains trade that are closed because the item sold or was relisted).

 

Now the the B.M.O.C price listed on backpack.tf is 12 keys, on trade.tf spreadsheet is around 11 keys (from monitoring backpacks).

 

Note, I just used the B.M.O.C as an example obviously, you can use the search function in deals to find whatever you want.

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I don't have an opinion whether the spreadsheet should be as evidence.

 

However, in completely different way the good deals section can provide a lot of evidence by searching at what prices is an item selling (we don't typically keep trades older than 48 hours btw), for example I searched for the B.M.O.C:

http://www.trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/B.M.O.C./all/1

 

And I can find quite a few selling/sold at 11 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394622

http://www.trade.tf/trade/515977553

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10384586

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382199

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381384

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381033

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516094732

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10366962

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516071795

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516056156

 

Then there are also plenty listed for 12 keys, some for 13.

 

Obviously, since backpack.tf uses tf2outpost as well as backpack.tf classified as evidence, that's a lot of evidence that you can gather easily by just going through the deals (which also contains trade that are closed because the item sold or was relisted).

 

Now the the B.M.O.C price listed on backpack.tf is 12 keys, on trade.tf spreadsheet is around 11 keys (from monitoring backpacks).

 

Note, I just used the B.M.O.C as an example obviously, you can use the search function in deals to find whatever you want.

I've been using it already. Some good deals I find aren't "good deals", they just mean the price needs to be lowered.

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I don't have an opinion whether the spreadsheet should be as evidence.

 

However, in completely different way the good deals section can provide a lot of evidence by searching at what prices is an item selling (we don't typically keep trades older than 48 hours btw), for example I searched for the B.M.O.C:

http://www.trade.tf/deals/search/Sell/All/B.M.O.C./all/1

 

And I can find quite a few selling/sold at 11 keys:

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10394622

http://www.trade.tf/trade/515977553

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10384586

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10382199

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381384

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10381033

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516094732

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10366962

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516071795

http://www.trade.tf/trade/516056156

 

Then there are also plenty listed for 12 keys, some for 13.

 

Obviously, since backpack.tf uses tf2outpost as well as backpack.tf classified as evidence, that's a lot of evidence that you can gather easily by just going through the deals (which also contains trade that are closed because the item sold or was relisted).

 

Now the the B.M.O.C price listed on backpack.tf is 12 keys, on trade.tf spreadsheet is around 11 keys (from monitoring backpacks).

 

Note, I just used the B.M.O.C as an example obviously, you can use the search function in deals to find whatever you want.

The problem with this, is that it only helps lowering the prices. We already have a problem with that. It's easier to post a suggestion to lower prices, but raising them is harder. 

 

However, it's still helpful for suggestions. I'll welcome your spreadsheet as evidence on suggestions. Only if backed up AND if you add the date an amount (if you didn't add it already) as Brad said.

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How many and when.

Well then when is already covered by the hour by hour graph (or could be, depending on how he would make the layout).

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The problem with this, is that it only helps lowering the prices. We already have a problem with that. It's easier to post a suggestion to lower prices, but raising them is harder. 

 

However, it's still helpful for suggestions. I'll welcome your spreadsheet as evidence on suggestions. Only if backed up AND if you add the date an amount (if you didn't add it already) as Brad said.

 

Hey Chief D,

 

I see where you're coming from about perpetual price lowering, there are always people selling for less than the price, a better place to look could be the fair deals sections (which contains good and fair deals). Ideally, the price must be adjusted when the proportion of people selling for less is sufficiently high. However the big problem is to measure the proportion that actually sold. Obviously you're aware of my spreadsheet which tracks trades, that was my way to address that eternal question.

 

Concerning volume (and dates), I addressed the question in the FAQ on my website. I can add that information for every item but I'll have to do some code changes to transmit this information from math engine input to its outpout (and I'm going on vacation soon, not sure I can find time before).

 

However I am not sure that it's a good idea to use my spreadsheet as proof since that would influence backpack.tf prices and I think the whole benefit of having two independent sources of information is that they remain independent to validate each other.

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I like the idea of the "good deals" section. If I wasn't at my current trading state, I would love those 1 rec profit trades. Have you considered when the website becomes more popular to make that "good deals" a paid service? Or at least for donors only? It would give valuable contributors of your project a better chance at scoring something great on outpost, rather than your average Joe blow having access to something like that.

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I like the idea of the "good deals" section. If I wasn't at my current trading state, I would love those 1 rec profit trades. Have you considered when the website becomes more popular to make that "good deals" a paid service? Or at least for donors only? It would give valuable contributors of your project a better chance at scoring something great on outpost, rather than your average Joe blow having access to something like that.

Yes possibly, depending on whether the traffic gets too crowded, I may implement a donation system and some priority access to donators.

And in that case, I would transfer part of the donations to the websites where the good deals trades are from so that the whole community benefits.

 

But I prefer not to think too far ahead. That makes my day each time someone comes to me and says they made some profit thanks to my website (when I was beta testing with 10 people a month ago, I've got report of people making over a bud a week in profit and I was like: realllly ?).

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