Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 http://redd.it/1d46np thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 This could be a new revolution. Could this be used for proof? Does backpack have new competition. idfk. but this looks pretty cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC22 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 the good deals section is so bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Heavy Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 the good deals section is so bad Not exactly. It shows dum dums selling for low prices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 the good deals section is so bad He just unveiled the price list. I don't know how developed the deals section is. And I absolutely believe this will compete with backpack.tf. PR of the site is now more important than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleverpun Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The first thing they need to do with the pricelist is to make it round numbers. And the color boxes poke through the pricelist header Also, the good deals section is incredibly user-unfriendly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 The first thing they need to do with the pricelist is to make it round numbers. And the color boxes poke through the pricelist header the color boxes have been fixed. any higher-level opinions? thoughts on a fully automated price list, how it will compete with backpack.tf? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC22 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The first thing they need to do with the pricelist is to make it round numbers. And the color boxes poke through the pricelist header Also, the good deals section is incredibly user-unfriendly... They just input random numbers. There was a selling trade obvious at 1.66, listed at 1.22 Their prices are also very lulzy. Pyro craft token (0.17-0.23) Salty dog 1.35 Oh shiz. Fully automatic? Time to manipulate like hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liddojunior Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Its wierd. Needs fixing. Its got wierd intervals. And prices. And some tend to be very low. Example BMOC (Havnt gotten one in a while at 11 keys) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 They just input random numbers. what? Their prices are also very lulzy. Pyro craft token (0.17-0.23) so, 1.5 scrap to 2 scrap? it's just decimals. It gives metal values on hover. Oh shiz. Fully automatic? Time to manipulate like hell. do you think this is a threat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cleverpun Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 any higher-level opinions? thoughts on a fully automated price list, how it will compete with backpack.tf? As a user of technology I am suspicious of any heavily automated processes, and I firmly believe in Occam's Razor. That's why I don't use warehouse or TF2Finance. The same goes for overly opaque services (and yes, I'm aware that's why some people ignore bp.tf). As an objective observer I am impressed with the amount of effort that went into it (if genuine), am curious about it's potential uses and implications, but ultimately both of those are eclipsed by its noticeable flaws. As a trader I don't find the "good deals" tool useful; I do not base my trading strategies around quicksells, and since the list doesn't update often and all its contents are quicksells it's fairly useless. The pricelist is not a go-to because of the first thing I listed. I'll pop in to check it now and then or to verify something I already know, but I doubt the bookmark will be used much. As a backpack.tf admin I have no concrete opinions about it until it's done. The vocal minority of people who hate bp.tf will hate us no matter what (and rest assured they are a minority if our traffic numbers are any indicator). You're assuming that there will be competition when most people prefer one and only one source; People still use spreadsheet after all. I'm not going to let some imaginary competition change any of my day-to-day activities--I already invest a lot of time into trying to help the site best I can. There, happy? I have no personal stake in the success of the website, my opinions/analyses aren't any more interesting or valid than anyone else's. If you want an interesting perspective I suggest you ask Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 There, happy? I have no personal stake in the success of the website, my opinions/analyses aren't any more interesting or valid than anyone else's. If you want an interesting perspective I suggest you ask Brad. I wasn't trying to call you out personally. I just wanted the discussion to be more about what will come of the list rather than its minor aesthetic bugs. I do appreciate the commentary you added, though. It will be interesting to see the dichotomy between "I don't trust a list controlled by traders" and "I don't trust a list controlled by a machine". I will certainly be giving it a look for trades and suggestions. If the automatically set price of trade.tf is dramatically different than I expect, I'll look more into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distinctively Vincent Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Personally speaking, it's not something I would use. It has the same issue as the spreadsheet: You don't see where the numbers are coming from, you never know whether they can be trusted or if it might be in error or being manipulated. With backpack.tf, you can see exactly what went into forming a price and decide for yourself whether it's an accurate depiction of the market for that item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 You don't see where the numbers are coming from, you never know whether they can be trusted or if it might be in error or being manipulated. A good point. I tend to be more trusting of automated data aggregation than I should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I have not had the time to know much of the new site. Does the price include every trade type; resellers, quickbuyers, quicksellers. There are a lot of those so that effects the result. Most "supplied" goods came from a reseller/quickbuyers who then sells at list price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Its wierd. Needs fixing. Its got wierd intervals. And prices. And some tend to be very low. Example BMOC (Havnt gotten one in a while at 11 keys) It includes item trading which can be very sketchy. What if there is a multi-item trade? How does it know which values to assign? Alternatively, it can give insight on trades that don't show up on the posts in outpost (ie. offer shown with sellers response). I hav many trades where we never communicated in the posting. The interval makes sense if u r a machine. We like things to go in 1 rec intervals. It probably rounds to the nearest craftable weapon. Does it count when I transfer items from one alt to another. That would be whacky. Imagine transferring an unusual for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swag Inc Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Hello guys, I'm the developer of trade.tf First of all, let me clarify one thing about competition. I don't plan nor want to be backpack.tf competition, I've been in touch with Brad Pitt before launching my spreadsheet and we exchanged thoughts (including about my deals area). Basically he told me it was interesting to have another data point and appreciated my effort for the deals section. My goal is not to enter a flame war or to rip off someone else's ideas. I just want to bring more tools to the trading scene and give back to the community, that's why I wrote trade.tf. I am a passionate user of backpack.tf which is superb website that does a lot for the trading community and I use it daily. Now concerning opacity, I am open to suggestions to make my system more transparent anyway I can. If you consider the deals section is not user-friendly, I'm open to suggestions too. I do the best I can by myself and I'm always willing to learn and make things better. If some coders, designers want to help, I'm open. About all the mathematical questions, I'll add a FAQ when I find time, for now I already gave a link to the mathematical paper with all the principles used in my implementation (which obviously can handle multi-item trades, that's the whole point), it's in the reddit thread but let me relink it: http://users.ece.gatech.edu/%7Ejustin/l1magic/downloads/papers/CandesRombergTao_revisedNov2005.pdf Well that's about it guys, that's a long post for me given I don't interact much socially on message boards or any online discussion. Back to coding, trading, steam rolling red team. And repeat. Just add me if you want to get in touch for whatever reason: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197970267736 -- Swag [inc] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jymotion Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Hello guys... Thanks for chiming in, swag (if you're still around). Hopefully I didn't give the impression of wanting to start a flame war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Synister Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 They just input random numbers. There was a selling trade obvious at 1.66, listed at 1.22 I saw that one as well. From the looks of it, the person has it so that it views the trade notes and looks for key terms. Even though it said 1.66 near the top of the notes, it only pulled the value of 1.22 that they placed near the end. Though, this is just based on what I noticed about it. I could be wrong. Edit: Take this for example. The listing: http://i.imgur.com/KU8XJlx.png The trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348441 In this case, it looks like "29 tf2 keys" didn't seem to be recognized, so it pulled the next value that it saw which was "2 keys" and then listed it as such. It's not really random numbers, it's just a couple of bumps in the road. Nothing's perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Puddilicious Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 No transparency. I might as well be using the old TF2 spreadsheet if I'm gonna use that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swag Inc Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Synister, you're completely correct. The situation is the following: sometimes on tf2outpost people don't create the trade properly by entering the right amount. To address this problem I wrote some primitive "artificial intelligence" that tries to read the trade text to find the real asking price. The problem is that a.i. is still... primitive and has a hard time to make sense of the text messages. It has its kinks and I work on improving it whenever I find time. Just to be clear, the good deals and spreadsheet are 2 independant modules. The good deal relies on some a.i. to try to read trades and figure real prices to determine good deals. The spreadsheet on other hand is completely different beast and is purely based on monitoring user backpack and applying some fancy maths. Once I manage to write a clean FAQ, it'll show a few examples that will help understand the general idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC22 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I saw that one as well. From the looks of it, the person has it so that it views the trade notes and looks for key terms. Even though it said 1.66 near the top of the notes, it only pulled the value of 1.22 that they placed near the end. Though, this is just based on what I noticed about it. I could be wrong. Edit: Take this for example. The listing: http://i.imgur.com/KU8XJlx.png The trade: http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/10348441 In this case, it looks like "29 tf2 keys" didn't seem to be recognized, so it pulled the next value that it saw which was "2 keys" and then listed it as such It's not really random numbers, it's just a couple of bumps in the road. Nothing's perfect. Yeah, the detection stuff hath some problems. Some of them are truly legit though. Bought a couple hats for cheep . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brad Pitt Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I think it's cool - What I'd like to see is how many trades have been used in the past say, 48 hours to achieve the price listed. i.e. I want to know how old/recent the price is. For example, some items are not traded often, and the price might be outdated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
∞Ramses Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 The graphs are cool. And useful. I think. I love graphs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief D Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 This will help the suggestions a lot, but only if what Brad said is added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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