Unusual sellers complaining about "lowball.tf"

[MC22]

Many unusuals I come across have people that say "people from backpack.tf GTFO" or the like.

The silly thing is, if they think a price is wrong on backpack.tf, why not make a suggestion for it higher?

I ask with my offer on it, and no matter what the offer it is hidden.

 

Why don't people price stuff differently if they think if the price is off?

If one is correct evidence is not hard to come by.

[The Killjoy]

Because unusual trading is a bad place where people always value their unusual at double the price and yours at half

Of course anything that puts a price in their hat is gonna get hated on

[MC22]

Because unusual trading is a bad place where people always value their unusual at double the price and yours at half

Of course anything that puts a price in their hat is gonna get hated on

I consider bp.tf's prices on my hats valid because I check offers on them to make sure it is correct.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

There are a couple issues.

 

For one, unusuals are highly subjective, so applying a definitive price (i.e. price list) creates issues. Especially when prices fluctuate heavily depending on the currency *cough* Brad *cough*.

 

Also, like killjoy said, unusual traders always overvalue their hat and undervalue yours.

 

And finally, closely related to what killjoy said but still subtly different, a price guide stops people from taking advantage (i.e. puts everyone on an even playing field).

 

As to why people often don't fix prices.

#1, People won't price their own unusual for fear it won't be accepted--manipulation.

#2, They would rather have an old lower price then a brand new current price. I had a p energy mirror, and i would rather see its price at 1.7-2 and be 5+ months old, then see a brand new price at 2-2.3. IMO, i would be able to get more with an older lower price than a newer higher price since people will be more willing to listen with an older price (since it could be outdated, in comparison to a brand new price).

[Distinctively Vincent]

A couple of my more optimistic thoughts.

 

1. Some do try, but fail to understand how the site works. After a hostile reaction to an unsupported suggestion, they figure the site is a lost cause and simply move on.

 

2. Some get turned off by the site on principle. If you get involved in unusual trading, you're going to get hit frequently by 'Backpack.tf says *lowest range of a 9 month old price* so I'll offer that", followed by shouts of "Scammer!" when you say you're looking for or have been offered more. The problem is the trader who fails to understand what a price guide is or was solely looking to leverage it for a cheap unusual, but when you get multiple traders doing the same thing, you'll end up blaming the common denominator- the site they all point at. Once the site is seen as the enemy, you're not going to be particularly willing to bother trying it.

[Liddojunior]

i use bp.tf for unusual prices, but of course i check out trades at the same time. 

 

The only thing i find bad is the fluctuating of the price. On a daily basis because of key/buds changing. 

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

-snip-

Well a couple ideas in order to fix things...

#1, a HUGE super-imposed banner (like an motd) that MUST be accepted before viewing the price list:

All prices are just suggestions. No item has 1 true set value, all items fluctuate and can sell for more or less than the listed price.

Yes, i know this message exists, but its in the footer, and lets be honest....No one reads the footer...

Also, maybe including a link to a couple guides--how to find the most up to date price of an item--unusual/normal.

 

#2, change the way unususal suggestions are done. Generally the low end is the lowest offer which clearly isn't a lowball (or if there are a lot of sales, then the lowest sale). But frankly, those offers were all rejected for a reason....so maybe keeping the range to: Low end (the cheapest sale excluding quicksells)-High end (Highest offer/sale--which has been repeated/isn't an outlier).

 

#3, Finally get Brad to change the currency unusuals are stored in...Although, i'm not really sure what would be the best option at the moment since things are fluctuating quite a bit.

[MC22]

Well a couple ideas in order to fix things...

#1, a HUGE super-imposed banner (like an motd) that MUST be accepted before viewing the price list:

 

All prices are just suggestions. No item has 1 true set value, all items fluctuate and can sell for more or less than the listed price.

Yes, i know this message exists, but its in the footer, and lets be honest....No one reads the footer...

Also, maybe including a link to a couple guides--how to find the most up to date price of an item--unusual/normal.

#2, change the way unususal suggestions are done. Generally the low end is the lowest offer which clearly isn't a lowball (or if there are a lot of sales, then the lowest sale). But frankly, those offers were all rejected for a reason....so maybe keeping the range to: Low end (the cheapest sale excluding quicksells)-High end (Highest offer/sale--which has been repeated/isn't an outlier).

#3, Finally get Brad to change the currency unusuals are stored in...Although, i'm not really sure what would be the best option at the moment since things are fluctuating quite a bit.

Your #2 is really off. Low end is by lowest sold or B/O. High end is highest offered, or when very little offers and solds and lowering price sold low end lowest b/o high end. Why would rejected offer be used? Solds should be.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Your #2 is really off. Low end is by lowest sold or B/O. High end is highest offered, or when very little offers and solds and lowering price sold low end lowest b/o high end. Why would rejected offer be used? Solds should be.

I agree, but thats not true with some of the suggestions made. Often the low end ends up being the highest offer thats consistently rejected. (Very often, there have been no sales at the listed low end). 

[MC22]

I agree, but thats not true with some of the suggestions made. Often the low end ends up being the highest offer thats consistently rejected. (Very often, there have been no sales at the listed low end). 

then what is the high end on those?

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

then what is the high end on those?

The high end is usually fine--the highest offer/sale (that wasn't an outlier). In general, the high end is much easier to set then the low end since for the high end you can take the highest sale you can find. Unfortunately the low end can be harder, especially when the only other sale is quite a bit lower than the other. 

[MC22]

The high end is usually fine--the highest offer/sale (that wasn't an outlier). In general, the high end is much easier to set then the low end since for the high end you can take the highest sale you can find. Unfortunately the low end can be harder, especially when the only other sale is quite a bit lower than the other. 

peace coupe

20 key offer

13 key sold

piss.

[Crabislav]

I wanted to make a suggestion for my hat but nobody from the active suggestors nor me have sufficent backpack value to make one. The thing is that the suggestors spend like 5-10 minutes to make suggestions for both low and god tiers. You have to do much more detailed research before making a suggestion for items worth over 20 buds. What I just said can be applied to Long' s suggestion for moon crone's dome. Scorching listed as a much more expensive effect than moon what makes no sense, especially for this hat.  Yadda Yadda.

[MC22]

I wanted to make a suggestion for my hat but nobody from the active suggestors nor me have sufficent backpack value to make one. The thing is that the suggestors spend like 5-10 minutes to make suggestions for both low and god tiers. You have to do much more detailed research before making a suggestion for items worth over 20 buds. What I just said can be applied to Long' s suggestion for moon crone's dome. Scorching listed as a much more expensive effect than moon what makes no sense, especially for this hat.  Yadda Yadda.

Scorch tree is over burning tree. No one cares at all. 5-10 minutes is plenty time to do research on an unusual suggestion.

[F CHARLIE]

Your #2 is really off. Low end is by lowest sold or B/O. High end is highest offered, or when very little offers and solds and lowering price sold low end lowest b/o high end. Why would rejected offer be used? Solds should be.

 

Rejects have to be considered.  If six guys r selling the same hat for a few weeks, there r three people that visit each post and offer on each post, all the offers r lower then current range but not excessively so.  All offers get rejected.  We have to say that the sellers r unwilling to meet the market.  Three buyers, six sellers over 2 - 3 week period with tens of thousands of players.  We use rejects all the time to show a more accurate price point is below current.

[Triforce of Charmanders]

(like an motd) 

You must wait 30 seconds to close the MOTD. 

[~shenanigans]

1. Traders always want to profit.

2. All real profit is earned by arbitrage

3. A price guide reduces chances of arbitrage

 

Therefore, the solution is to call any price guide a "shit website" or "lowball central" etc, even if the prices listed are pretty close to actuality.

Also, these traders never complain if a price on bp.tf is too high, in which case they may even advertise it. I've seen trades with "BP.tf has this listed at 8-9 buds, I'm quickselling for 7!" when the actual hat value is lower and the price just hasn't been updated.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I wanted to make a suggestion for my hat but nobody from the active suggestors nor me have sufficent backpack value to make one. The thing is that the suggestors spend like 5-10 minutes to make suggestions for both low and god tiers. You have to do much more detailed research before making a suggestion for items worth over 20 buds. What I just said can be applied to Long' s suggestion for moon crone's dome. Scorching listed as a much more expensive effect than moon what makes no sense, especially for this hat.  Yadda Yadda.

Me, Long, Woifi, bucket, gold, etc... all have the ability to suggest a price on virtually any hat. So not really getting the "[none] of the active suggesters have sufficient backpack value" comment....

[cleverpun]

What shen said

[MC22]

It seems to me cancer unusual sellers have little complaints.

After about 3 buds things get stupid.

[Julia Gillard the Honest]

I wanted to make a suggestion for my hat but nobody from the active suggestors nor me have sufficent backpack value to make one. The thing is that the suggestors spend like 5-10 minutes to make suggestions for both low and god tiers. You have to do much more detailed research before making a suggestion for items worth over 20 buds. What I just said can be applied to Long' s suggestion for moon crone's dome. Scorching listed as a much more expensive effect than moon what makes no sense, especially for this hat.  Yadda Yadda.

The problem is that although your first suggestion was at least four months ago, you only have 110 points. http://backpack.tf/u/76561197998670017 Keep up the good work and someday you'll be able to suggest anything.

[Jester]

Many unusuals I come across have people that say "people from backpack.tf GTFO" or the like.

The silly thing is, if they think a price is wrong on backpack.tf, why not make a suggestion for it higher?

I ask with my offer on it, and no matter what the offer it is hidden.

 

Why don't people price stuff differently if they think if the price is off?

If one is correct evidence is not hard to come by.

Because until recently the cash price of buds on BP was waaaay off. Unusuals are stored in USD. Too big a price on buds results in a displayed bud price that was too low. Inexperienced traders see BP price and lowball unknowningly.  Hence the hate for BP.

 

#3, Finally get Brad to change the currency unusuals are stored in...Although, i'm not really sure what would be the best option at the moment since things are fluctuating quite a bit.

Cash is still the best for unusuals, but the cash price of keys and buds must be established via voting. That's the only way.  Right this moment, new suggestions are reasonably accurate b/c the real life cash price of buds and BP cash price are close, but for 6+ months prior this was not the case.  

 

This bud to cash to bud conversion error is why i quit making suggestions. It's a waste of time until the site is reprogrammed. Hopefully Brad has the foresight to accomplish this task before BP is abandoned by the community. When clone sites like http://trade.tf/spreadsheet start popping up that should be a big warning. Afterall, that is why the blogspot sheet was abandoned for BP...creation from necessity.

[F CHARLIE]

I wanted to make a suggestion for my hat but nobody from the active suggestors nor me have sufficent backpack value to make one. The thing is that the suggestors spend like 5-10 minutes to make suggestions for both low and god tiers. You have to do much more detailed research before making a suggestion for items worth over 20 buds. What I just said can be applied to Long' s suggestion for moon crone's dome. Scorching listed as a much more expensive effect than moon what makes no sense, especially for this hat.  Yadda Yadda.

 

 

I have thought that a grid/spreadsheet could be made to help estimate what an un-priced hat could be worth.  Based on hat average price and effect average price accross all hats.  That would be a starting point and would give an owner or buyer an idea of what it should be.  Example:  Lets say that the B beak is avgd at 7 buds and harvest moons on any hat make them 8 buds higher than thier avg then the un-priced hm beak could have an expected price of at least 15 buds.  Its not perfect and can be adjusted for rarity but its a starting point.

 

Why can't u barrow some unusuals to price urs?

[smokedem]

I have thought that a grid/spreadsheet could be made to help estimate what an un-priced hat could be worth.  Based on hat average price and effect average price accross all hats.  That would be a starting point and would give an owner or buyer an idea of what it should be.  Example:  Lets say that the B beak is avgd at 7 buds and harvest moons on any hat make them 8 buds higher than thier avg then the un-priced hm beak could have an expected price of at least 15 buds.  Its not perfect and can be adjusted for rarity but its a starting point.

 

Why can't u barrow some unusuals to price urs?

Pretty sure Woifi and Blind Polar Bear can price anything that will come up any time soon. I'm nearing that point too.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

I have thought that a grid/spreadsheet could be made to help estimate what an un-priced hat could be worth.  Based on hat average price and effect average price accross all hats.  That would be a starting point and would give an owner or buyer an idea of what it should be.  Example:  Lets say that the B beak is avgd at 7 buds and harvest moons on any hat make them 8 buds higher than thier avg then the un-priced hm beak could have an expected price of at least 15 buds.  Its not perfect and can be adjusted for rarity but its a starting point.

 

Why can't u barrow some unusuals to price urs?

Very Interesting Idea....the only problem is that works well when the majority of prices are accurate. Unfortunatley due to the fact that there are 6000~ unusuals and the fact that the current system allows prices to fluctuate quite a bit based on currency makes it virtually impossible to have any reliable amount of accuracy. 

Pretty sure Woifi and Blind Polar Bear can price anything that will come up any time soon. I'm nearing that point too.

Y U always forget me.

 

*in corner  :( :( *