Python. Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 Hey, mods, specifically Polar Bear, would you mind just NOT providing proof right before accepting a suggestion? Let me eleborate: This is when the OP doesn't provide sufficient proof, and users vote according to the proof shown in the suggestion, more likely downvotes. Then an admin or mod provides extra proof and accepts immediately after posting it. This has been going on for a while now. When this happens, the users that actually voted according to the originally posted proof and downvote. This has been stated before, but I'll say it again. It is not the users job to search for extra or counter proof, but rather vote according to the proof provided, so just note that before you say "well you should check for extra proof before voting". What I want to get from this "suggestion" is for mods to post extra proof, or counter proof, as the case may be, and then accept or close the suggestion based on the proof posted in the original suggestion. This way, users, and myself, won't lose rep for voting correctly the first time. Have them re-suggest e.g. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52ffab194dd7b87c038b4568 for one Most (didn't vote blindly) people agreed the proof presented was not enough and downvoted for more than a week. Then a mod shows up, posts extra proof, and accepts almost a second, if not that, later. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Delicious Cashew Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 is your voting accuracy/rep really that meaningful to you? if the range is correct, why not accept the suggestion? controversial suggestions usually stay up a while to let more sales come in. this was one of them, and if theres no problem with the range, theres no point in closing an accurate suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 if the range is correct, why not accept the suggestion? > http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52ffab194dd7b87c038b4568 > it seems like 4 ref shouldn't be in the range given how quickly it sells there And the point of this suggestion was to say mods shouldn't accept suggestions with little valid proof I guess I didn't make that clear enough? And yes, rep and accuracy is important. If someone sees your percentage of correctly voted on suggestions and sees that it's low, they will not, more than less, take your advice on how to make or re-suggest a suggestion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminal Inhalation Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 is your voting accuracy/rep really that meaningful to you? if the range is correct, why not accept the suggestion? controversial suggestions usually stay up a while to let more sales come in. this was one of them, and if theres no problem with the range, theres no point in closing an accurate suggestion But Kaushu, he has to get most accurate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polar Posted February 25, 2014 Share Posted February 25, 2014 If the votes are positive and the proof (from me or the op or the suggester) leads to a conclusion that the range is a close representation of the market value, I will accept the suggestion. This won't change. I can't speak for how other mods would approach such a suggestion, but I know most would accept a suggestion they found accurate. I do these on suggestions where there is a dearth of proof and where bp.tf either doesn't have a price or has a grossly inaccurate one. I'll go out of my way to help a suggester out. This often means that the suggestion gets closed with new evidence, but it sometimes means that a suggestion without great proof to begin with gets accepted later. There are times when I'll leave a suggestion where the proof is my own to another mod, but this was a suggestion already up for 9+ days without any mod comment and a reasonable amount of proof from the op as well as at least one other comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted February 25, 2014 Author Share Posted February 25, 2014 Should I take the example out? Everyone is thinking the example is the only example, though this has happened hundreds of times before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Python. Posted March 29, 2014 Author Share Posted March 29, 2014 Bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted March 30, 2014 Administrators Share Posted March 30, 2014 I agree with Python here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWarlord Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Meh. I just not vote on suggestions that are in the right direction just with little proof. They can get backed up easily in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted March 31, 2014 Share Posted March 31, 2014 Hmmm there have been cases when a new suggester who provides 1 sold and some other trades which is clearly not sufficient proof to price a unusual and then either a mod or someone else provides more proof at a later time and gets accepted because the suggested range was close enough even though the initial proof was a clear downvote. Personally i dont mind as long as the price is right but i can see how this would annoy people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤ΣκαπανέαςGr❤ Posted August 1, 2014 Share Posted August 1, 2014 Hey, mods, specifically Polar Bear, would you mind just NOT providing proof right before accepting a suggestion? Let me eleborate: This is when the OP doesn't provide sufficient proof, and users vote according to the proof shown in the suggestion, more likely downvotes. Then an admin or mod provides extra proof and accepts immediately after posting it. This has been going on for a while now. When this happens, the users that actually voted according to the originally posted proof and downvote. This has been stated before, but I'll say it again. It is not the users job to search for extra or counter proof, but rather vote according to the proof provided, so just note that before you say "well you should check for extra proof before voting". What I want to get from this "suggestion" is for mods to post extra proof, or counter proof, as the case may be, and then accept or close the suggestion based on the proof posted in the original suggestion. This way, users, and myself, won't lose rep for voting correctly the first time. Have them re-suggest e.g. http://backpack.tf/vote/id/52ffab194dd7b87c038b4568 for one Most (didn't vote blindly) people agreed the proof presented was not enough and downvoted for more than a week. Then a mod shows up, posts extra proof, and accepts almost a second, if not that, later. Thanks lol who cares about your bp.tf stats guys.polar keep on doing what you do mate. if mods ignore the fact that an item needs a drop or pump even if they sees that the suggested range is up to date with the market trends not providing the additional proofs for the acceptance of the suggestion would be bad. blindly voting without some research just because suggester didn't provide sufficient links and blindly mod-wise reject a suggestion without looking into it ,it will result in outdated prices all over the place. accurate prices>rep status great job polar gg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted August 1, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 1, 2014 lol who cares about your bp.tf stats guys.polar keep on doing what you do mate. if mods ignore the fact that an item needs a drop or pump even if they sees that the suggested range is up to date with the market trends not providing the additional proofs for the acceptance of the suggestion would be bad. blindly voting without some research just because suggester didn't provide sufficient links and blindly mod-wise reject a suggestion without looking into it ,it will result in outdated prices all over the place. accurate prices>rep status great job polar gg People who are regular suggesters and regular voters care about this a lot. Since you are none of that and your voting accuracy is pretty low. It is pretty clear you don't care about this at all. For more info, see HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 is your voting accuracy/rep really that meaningful to you? Coming from the mod who made sure to upvote before accepting a suggestion to be #1 on voting accuracy isnt very convincing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Rather see a price be accurate than gain 1 rep point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted August 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 4, 2014 Rather see a price be accurate than gain 1 rep point. Huh? What do ya mean? o.o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Huh? What do ya mean? o.o Would rather see the suggestion passed, i lose 1 rep than suggestion closed i gain a rep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted August 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 4, 2014 Would rather see the suggestion passed, i lose 1 rep than suggestion closed i gain a rep. You're forgetting one important thing...With every wrong vote your accuracy goes down as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You're forgetting one important thing...With every wrong vote your accuracy goes down as well. You are forgetting another important thing, usually these suggestions come from new suggestors, not the regular ones, cuz regular ones dont miss extra proof(im an exception cuz im an fgt). It is much more encouraging for proof to be supplied to support your range AND getting accepted as opposed to your suggestion being closed, with or without supplied proof. When new suggestors are encouraged, you get more regular suggestors. Which is good for the website. Plus, mods should normally leave a comment if they accept/reject a suggestion anyways, usually countering the proof or providing additional proof. It's what they normally do( at least from what ive seen). Who wants their suggestion closed if their price range is right. When mods provide proof, it's just like any other normal person providing proof, some else could've pointed it out, including the voter. So if the voter cares about his/her accuracy so much they should do their own research as well, and not make their vote solely on the proof provided. (Plus plus, i normally do more than 1000 votes a month, last month 1300. A couple suggestions like that doesnt hurt that much, hue) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♠Derpeh♤ Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 You are forgetting another important thing, usually these suggestions come from new suggestors, not the regular ones, cuz regular ones dont miss extra proof(im an exception cuz im an fgt). It is much more encouraging for proof to be supplied to support your range AND getting accepted as opposed to your suggestion being closed, with or without supplied proof. When new suggestors are encouraged, you get more regular suggestors. Which is good for the website. Though i agree with this mentality in helping newer suggestors a larger bulk of the community contribute via voting and sharing their experiences with the item in question. When a newer suggester comes along who clearly isnt bothered to search for proper proof yet is still rewarded by others doing the work for them not only are they not learning anything but it annoys the users who had the intention of contributing to the site by voting regularly. Not to mention the large amount of comments going "you need more proof [insert some advice]" the suggestor would have received from our regulars and because a mod needed to do the work for them it means they didnt bother trying, so why should we reward them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Though i agree with this mentality in helping newer suggestors a larger bulk of the community contribute via voting and sharing their experiences with the item in question. When a newer suggester comes along who clearly isnt bothered to search for proper proof yet is still rewarded by others doing the work for them not only are they not learning anything but it annoys the users who had the intention of contributing to the site by voting regularly. Not to mention the large amount of comments going "you need more proof [insert some advice]" the suggestor would have received from our regulars and because a mod needed to do the work for them it means they didnt bother trying, so why should we reward them? Some actually try, I wouldnt have started suggesting if people didnt help me with my suggestion and tell me i had to apply overpay, find sellers etc. Everyone has to start somewhere, you don't have to think of it as a reward, and it is a tinesy bit selfish to say not to help someone just because they didnt know/they are a complete idiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted August 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 4, 2014 You are forgetting another important thing, usually these suggestions come from new suggestors, not the regular ones, cuz regular ones dont miss extra proof(im an exception cuz im an fgt). It is much more encouraging for proof to be supplied to support your range AND getting accepted as opposed to your suggestion being closed, with or without supplied proof. When new suggestors are encouraged, you get more regular suggestors. Which is good for the website. So you are saying that voters should not be notified at all when something like this happens? Yes, voters should be able to choose which suggestion to follow in case something comes up... Example : http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53c3e26d4cd7b8dd4c8b4568 As you can see the suggester created a very poor quality suggestion but what happened? A random person came in and backed up the suggestion. What happened to the avid/regular voters? They were never notified and lost accuracy due to that. Also, I am completely agreeing with Derpeh here. If you create a suggestion, you are suppose to do the work not make poor quality suggestion and then expect others to do it for you. -snip- Another great example came up while I was writing this...This one : http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53df80d34dd7b8ba198b4568 Obviously its clearly a downvote but what if the price he is suggesting is actually correct? What if I go and provide proof? Would any voters be happy? Obviously not. Why? Because the suggestion is/was at the poorest quality and if someone does go and backup the suggestion out of nowhere...Voters who voted down should be notified. Some actually try, I wouldnt have started suggesting if people didnt help me with my suggestion and tell me i had to apply overpay, find sellers etc. Everyone has to start somewhere, you don't have to think of it as a reward, and it is a tinesy bit selfish to say not to help someone just because they didnt know/they are a complete idiot I didn't know shit about this site before I came here but what did I do? I read the guidelines and rules as well as watched over how suggestions are done before starting myself. Its selfish and laziness for someone to not read the guidelines and create poor quality suggestion and then expect someone to backup their suggestion for them. Their is something known is trying...And then you have suggestions like the ones I posted, laziness and did not read the rules/guidelines at all. What are you suppose to do when you first sign up for a site? Read the guidelines and rules. If the suggestion had at least decent proof, I definitely help all the time to backup their suggestion but very poor quality suggestions does not deserve any help because they clearly did not read the rules and guidelines before going on and creating a suggestion of their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 So you are saying that voters should not be notified at all when something like this happens? Yes, voters should be able to choose which suggestion to follow in case something comes up... Example : http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53c3e26d4cd7b8dd4c8b4568 As you can see the suggester created a very poor quality suggestion but what happened? A random person came in and backed up the suggestion. What happened to the avid/regular voters? They were never notified and lost accuracy due to that. Also, I am completely agreeing with Derpeh here. If you create a suggestion, you are suppose to do the work not make poor quality suggestion and then expect others to do it for you. Another great example came up while I was writing this...This one : http://backpack.tf/vote/id/53df80d34dd7b8ba198b4568 Obviously its clearly a downvote but what if the price he is suggesting is actually correct? What if I go and provide proof? Would any voters be happy? Obviously not. Why? Because the suggestion is/was at the poorest quality and if someone does go and backup the suggestion out of nowhere...Voters who voted down should be notified. I didn't know shit about this site before I came here but what did I do? I read the guidelines and rules as well as watched over how suggestions are done before starting myself. Its selfish and laziness for someone to not read the guidelines and create poor quality suggestion and then expect someone to backup their suggestion for them. What are you suppose to do when you first sign up for a site? Read the guidelines and rules. If the suggestion had at least decent proof, I definitely help all the time to backup their suggestion but very poor quality suggestions does not deserve any help because they clearly did not read the rules and guidelines before going on and creating a suggestion of their own. I still bet you didn't read the iTunes terms and conditions. hue. Anyways manipulation and stuff yeah i can agree with that shouldnt be backed up, it isnt. But if someone tries and for example is trying to price an unusual, but messes 1 bit of proof, it should be totally fine if someone counters it or tries to help him. Asking for mods to stop posting extra proof before the suggestion gets accepted is similar to asking everyone to do it, someone can post a last minute proof, mods can do the same, it is your own fault if you didn't research the market, and only voted on the suggestion solely based on the proof(talking about suggestions with actual proof, not manipulation). Would much rather the suggestion subscription thing pass compared to this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators OverduePixels Posted August 4, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 4, 2014 I still bet you didn't read the iTunes terms and conditions. hue. Anyways manipulation and stuff yeah i can agree with that shouldnt be backed up, it isnt. But if someone tries and for example is trying to price an unusual, but messes 1 bit of proof, it should be totally fine if someone counters it or tries to help him. Asking for mods to stop posting extra proof before the suggestion gets accepted is similar to asking everyone to do it, someone can post a last minute proof, mods can do the same, it is your own fault if you didn't research the market, and only voted on the suggestion solely based on the proof(talking about suggestions with actual proof, not manipulation). Would much rather the suggestion subscription thing pass compared to this Terms and Conditions is a bit different from rules and guidelines. Rules and Guidelines are much shorter and simpler version. Believe it or not, I actually do read TOS if it is clearly needed. I read the whole TOS of Steam before I started using it. That is why I am supporting this Suggestion more (Pearly Gate's suggestion) than this one we are replying on. xD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted August 4, 2014 Share Posted August 4, 2014 Terms and Conditions is a bit different from rules and guidelines. Rules and Guidelines are much shorter and simpler version. Believe it or not, I actually do read TOS if it is clearly needed. I read the whole TOS of Steam before I started using it. That is why I am supporting this Suggestion more (Pearly Gate's suggestion) than this one we are replying on. xD point 1: im too badass for TOS hue. point 2: yeah if pearly's suggestion passes, i would like to see like a 5 min rule from the last comment or something. so when u get notified, if there is additional proof, u can change ur vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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