Ref Sink

[Fresgd]

An idea I was think for a useful ref sink was making it so ref could be used to make stuff like backpack expanders, Mann Co. ToD tickets, stuff like that.  This could be useful as it could make it harder for bots to really farm it, for money at least as the price for these items would go down in value.  Also, the idea of just making a backpack expander whenever you need it is pretty inviting.  These were just my thoughts and I wonder what people think of 'em.

 

[moonlight.]

The base idea of a ref sink has been suggested before in like 2015 I'm pretty sure.

[KnightOfPurgatory]

Ref sinks have been suggested at least since keys started going above 7 ref, which was back in end 2013- early 2014. And not only that, similar things have already been implemented before, in the form of bread boxes.

[Scott Bakula]

A ref sink like that would simply cause the value of those items to effectively crash down to near-worthlessness. Valve doesn't want items like those to become worthless, as that how they make money, by people buying them from the Mann Co. Store or SCM.

 

A more realistic ref sink would be something like being able to craft a repainting kit that could be used on a war paint to get a reroll on the pattern. Or introducing some new noisemakers that can only be made via crafting.

[3.50]

A metal sink seems like a good idea on the surface...

 

You get something to do with all that metal from weapon drops, and since a lot of metal gets removed from circulation, the refined:key ratio decreases, meaning it takes fewer weapons to make enough metal to buy a key, so your weapon drops are more valuable.  Everyone wins, right?

 

Well...it isn't as great of an idea as it sounds, for two very specific reasons: 

 

First: Idling bots would crap on everything again

Idling accounts would hog the benefits and drive metal value back down.  I don't know what the threshold is exactly, but if the refined:key ratio were ever to drop low enough, it would become profitable again to set up tons of idling accounts to farm drops for metal.  (People may still do this, but I doubt anyone is setting up new accounts because the amount of time needed to recoup the initial investment is too high, and the potential for profit is so much larger elsewhere).  People with the knowledge and resources (mostly the knowledge, it doesn't take a ton of resources) to set up idle farms would set up tons of them.  I'm talking hundreds of accounts. 

 

Once the idle farms are up and running, the owners come by every so often to scoop up the metal from each account, and use it all to buy keys.  Since they have a huge pile of metal that they got from doing next to no work, they'll happily outbid the competition for the available keys, dumping tons of metal back into the market and driving metal value back down.  And not only will key prices be driven back up, but the few bot owners will be the ones that get most of the benefit.  Or they'll craft tons of bread boxes or whatever the metal sink item is, until they're next to worthless.  Either way, it's a very few people (that don't need any extra help) that would benefit disproportionately.

 

And really: we don't want to go back to that.  As much as some traders dislike trading bots, they are at least providing a service.  Idling bots are just printing free metal and causing inflation while doing no one beyond their owners any significant service.

 

Second: Cheap items would become a lot more expensive in real terms.  

Items are basically sorted into the ones whose price is tied to the key (or to real-world money, or SCM funds), and ones whose price is tied to the refined (or to the craft hat). 

**Contrary to what some people think, the distinction isn't purely based on whether an item's price is above or below a key.  An item can be worth 2 cents, but still have its price tied to the key.  TF2 trading cards are an example of this--they're less than 10 cents, but their price has nothing to do with metal and doesn't fluctuate with metal prices. 

 

The reason people want a metal sink is because it would (if it worked) raise the value of items whose value is tied to metal, relative to the value of items whose price is tied to keys.  The idea (essentially) is that your weekly weapon drops would add up to an unusual much more quickly if a metal sink were added.  (see the first point about idling bots)

But that would also mean that items like craft hats would become a lot more expensive in real terms. 

 

Think of it this way: Craft hats are very cheap in real terms, currently.  If a key is worth ~37 ref and a craft hat is 1.11, then you can get ~33 hats for one key.  If a key costs you $2.49 because you don't want to use secondary markets or even the SCM, and you just load money straight into your steam wallet and buy the key from the Mann Co. store, then you still get ~66 hats for $5.  Coincidentally, that's enough to buy at least 6 different hats for each class, and still have some change left over.  Magically metal sink until refined:key prices are 2.66:1, and suddenly that $5 gets you...not even one hat for each class.  

 

If you were a new player and loaded $5 into your Steam wallet and bought two keys, that could buy you every weapon in the game plus 4+ hats for each class.  The more you increase the value of metal, the less stuff you can buy with that $5.

 

This means that a metal sink would essentially be crapping directly on the players who have just a few $$ to spend on the game, in order to help the people who aren't willing (or able) to spend anything at all. 

...does it still sound like a great idea now?

[ksolis01]

34 minutes ago, 3.50 said:

A metal sink seems like a good idea on the surface...

 

You get something to do with all that metal from weapon drops, and since a lot of metal gets removed from circulation, the refined:key ratio decreases, meaning it takes fewer weapons to make enough metal to buy a key, so your weapon drops are more valuable.  Everyone wins, right?

 

Well...it isn't as great of an idea as it sounds, for two very specific reasons: 

 

First: Idling bots would crap on everything again

Idling accounts would hog the benefits and drive metal value back down.  I don't know what the threshold is exactly, but if the refined:key ratio were ever to drop low enough, it would become profitable again to set up tons of idling accounts to farm drops for metal.  (People may still do this, but I doubt anyone is setting up new accounts because the amount of time needed to recoup the initial investment is too high, and the potential for profit is so much larger elsewhere).  People with the knowledge and resources (mostly the knowledge, it doesn't take a ton of resources) to set up idle farms would set up tons of them.  I'm talking hundreds of accounts. 

 

Once the idle farms are up and running, the owners come by every so often to scoop up the metal from each account, and use it all to buy keys.  Since they have a huge pile of metal that they got from doing next to no work, they'll happily outbid the competition for the available keys, dumping tons of metal back into the market and driving metal value back down.  And not only will key prices be driven back up, but the few bot owners will be the ones that get most of the benefit.  Or they'll craft tons of bread boxes or whatever the metal sink item is, until they're next to worthless.  Either way, it's a very few people (that don't need any extra help) that would benefit disproportionately.

 

And really: we don't want to go back to that.  As much as some traders dislike trading bots, they are at least providing a service.  Idling bots are just printing free metal and causing inflation while doing no one beyond their owners any significant service.

 

Second: Cheap items would become a lot more expensive in real terms.  

Items are basically sorted into the ones whose price is tied to the key (or to real-world money, or SCM funds), and ones whose price is tied to the refined (or to the craft hat). 

**Contrary to what some people think, the distinction isn't purely based on whether an item's price is above or below a key.  An item can be worth 2 cents, but still have its price tied to the key.  TF2 trading cards are an example of this--they're less than 10 cents, but their price has nothing to do with metal and doesn't fluctuate with metal prices. 

 

The reason people want a metal sink is because it would (if it worked) raise the value of items whose value is tied to metal, relative to the value of items whose price is tied to keys.  The idea (essentially) is that your weekly weapon drops would add up to an unusual much more quickly if a metal sink were added.  (see the first point about idling bots)

But that would also mean that items like craft hats would become a lot more expensive in real terms. 

 

Think of it this way: Craft hats are very cheap in real terms, currently.  If a key is worth ~37 ref and a craft hat is 1.11, then you can get ~33 hats for one key.  If a key costs you $2.49 because you don't want to use secondary markets or even the SCM, and you just load money straight into your steam wallet and buy the key from the Mann Co. store, then you still get ~66 hats for $5.  Coincidentally, that's enough to buy at least 6 different hats for each class, and still have some change left over.  Magically metal sink until refined:key prices are 2.66:1, and suddenly that $5 gets you...not even one hat for each class.  

 

If you were a new player and loaded $5 into your Steam wallet and bought two keys, that could buy you every weapon in the game plus 4+ hats for each class.  The more you increase the value of metal, the less stuff you can buy with that $5.

 

This means that a metal sink would essentially be crapping directly on the players who have just a few $$ to spend on the game, in order to help the people who aren't willing (or able) to spend anything at all. 

...does it still sound like a great idea now?

Looking at your first reason at a different angle: inflated player numbers to make tf2 seem more alive than it really is.

[3.50]

11 minutes ago, ksolis01 said:

Looking at your first reason at a different angle: inflated player numbers to make tf2 seem more alive than it really is.

TF2 is dead, I played that game once back in the day on my roommate's xbox. 

 

I was a construction man and I built an autogun on top of the skybox on this one map called dustblow or something like that and I shot a bunch of guys and they didn't expect me to be up there and I also made this teleporter so my team could get up there also and it was awesome until this one guy on the other team hacked the game somehow to make it think he was on my team and he came through my teleporter and oneshotted me with a knife (more hacks, knifes only does ~35 damage) and I should have reported him but I didn't because I threw the controller on the floor and got scared that I might have broken my roommate's controller and turned the xbox off real fast and went back in my room and pretended like I hadn't been playing at all

[AdamWTS]

Making ToD tickets craftable is a horrible, horrible idea. Firstly, it would DESTROY the australium market, driving the prices to the point they're not even desirable anymore, and secondly, it would give Mann Up access to people that shouldn't have had it in a first place. Remember when ToD tickets were given away to F2Ps in Christmas stockings?