Get rid of unusual prices that no longer meet the standards.

[Timrod]

I am currently the owner of a Cloudy Moon Towering Pillar. There's supposedly 8 in existence, and I've seen probably 5 of them on Outpost over the past two years. One thing I've noticed about them is that a lot of people tend to use the price here when trying to sell their hat. Now, let's look at the pricing suggestion for the pillar in that effect. Immediately noticeable are the following:

 

1. The suggestion is two years old, and most likely older due to the way the website reports dates on suggestions. I'm pretty sure that suggestion went up about a week after the first halloween update.

 

That's troubling enough, because with a hat that's 1 of 8, you aren't likely to find a whole lot of sales to use for a new price. Most of the people who have theirs are keeping them.

 

2. The suggestion was made by a mega-trader with zero proof involved.

 

The only proof he gives are some "current offers" from two years ago - there are no links (there probably were two years ago before the site was redesigned), and even if there were, I don't think Outpost's cache goes back that far. Also noteable is that there are no sales involved here, only a lot of speculation from two years ago that is completely irrelevant to today's market. If someone were to make this suggestion today, they'd not only be in violation of the suggestion rules, but the mods would instantly reject it for lack of proof.

 

3. There is no record of a vote being taken on the suggestion.

 

Again, this could be because of the site re-design, but to me, it looks like this mega-trader essentially said "This hat is worth what I say it is", and the price was accepted by the mods almost instantly with no questions asked.

 

4. Since the suggestion was initially released, the price has been adulterated with no suggestions made.

 

Due to the way the site automatically updates prices, and how many times that algorithm has no doubt been adjusted in two years, the price of the hat is nowhere near what it used to be, even though no suggestions were made. The initial suggestion put the price at (IIRC) 16-20 buds. Now, I understand that buds have fallen over two years - but logically, that should push the price HIGHER than 20 buds from two years ago for the values to remain consistent. Allow me to show the math for this. I believe buds were worth about 30-35 keys in 2011, and today they're worth about 20.

 

2011 - 18 buds (avg) x 30 keys = 540 Keys

2014 - 18 buds (avg) x 20 keys = 360 Keys

 

 

Today, the hat is listed at 14.9 buds or 290 keys.. but no suggestions have been accepted since two years ago. This is because when the suggestion was made, buds were the primary way hats were tracked - but now, keys are. Therefore, the hat magically value.. for no reason whatsoever.

All of these factors mean this hat (and no doubt countless others) have completely incorrect values that taint the price of the hat. Therefore, I think these prices, which no longer meet the standards, should be removed entirely.

 

 

 

 

[Alex From Security]

Then suggest a new price.

That is the whole point of the site.

[sanny]

Good thread 0/10 would not read again

[t0night]

Then suggest a new price.

That is the whole point of the site.

if the price is leading the market there's a very good case for the price being deleted. the whole point of the site isn't actually to score meaningless points by correcting people, contrary to how it seems at times. it's supposed to reflect a market, not dictate to it. you can argue there's an issue with how people interact with the site and that's true, but here's a nice way of making sure people don't use a 2 year old ridiculous price to value things: get rid of the 2 year old ridiculous price. I see no argument for keeping it.

[puddingkip]

if the price is leading the market there's a very good case for the price being deleted. the whole point of the site isn't actually to score meaningless points by correcting people, contrary to how it seems at times. it's supposed to reflect a market, not dictate to it. you can argue there's an issue with how people interact with the site and that's true, but here's a nice way of making sure people don't use a 2 year old ridiculous price to value things: get rid of the 2 year old ridiculous price. I see no argument for keeping it.

the people are idiots for using a 2 year old price, not backpack.tf's fault

[jorisk322]

the people are idiots for using a 2 year old price, not backpack.tf's fault

But backpack.tf can do something about it. It's not really about whose fault it is.

[t0night]

the people are idiots for using a 2 year old price, not backpack.tf's fault

"here's a nice way of making sure people don't use a 2 year old ridiculous price to value things: get rid of the 2 year old ridiculous price. I see no argument for keeping it."

[Timrod]

"here's a nice way of making sure people don't use a 2 year old ridiculous price to value things: get rid of the 2 year old ridiculous price. I see no argument for keeping it."

For me, it's not just that it's a two year old price, it's that it's a two-year-old price using evidence that would not be acceptable under the standards the site has today. Also, as you correctly pointed out, this is a case of bp.tf leading the market rather than reflecting it. I've had probably a dozen traders tell me that my hat is worth less than 15 buds, simply because they're relying on an ancient pricing standard that has no proof outside of "well, some trader said that it was worth this two years ago". Many traders I've spoken to do not believe this site to be accurate in reflecting prices, and this is one of the reasons why. If a hat doesn't have pricing that meets standards, the pricing should be removed until proof that meets the higher current standards can be found.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

For me, it's not just that it's a two year old price, it's that it's a two-year-old price using evidence that would not be acceptable under the standards the site has today. Also, as you correctly pointed out, this is a case of bp.tf leading the market rather than reflecting it. I've had probably a dozen traders tell me that my hat is worth less than 15 buds, simply because they're relying on an ancient pricing standard that has no proof outside of "well, some trader said that it was worth this two years ago".

 

Many traders I've spoken to do not believe this site to be accurate in reflecting prices, and this is one of the reasons why. If a hat doesn't have pricing that meets standards, the pricing should be removed until proof that meets the higher current standards can be found.

Just resuggest the price. Simple.

 

You do realize, that the majority of offers that get made are shit offers regardless of what backpack.tf prices an item hat. 

 

And all those people who bitch about backpack.tf's unusual price list can be summed up into two main categories: 

1. These people are butthurt they can no longer take advantage of newer traders. 
2. Backpack.tf values the hat lower than the owner does--and more often than not, backpack.tfs price is much better than the owners valuation. 
3. People who got an expensive hat, get shit offers (because the average trader is a cunt), and then need to blame it on someone (i.e. backpack.tf).

And what do all these people have in common? They'd all rather bitch about the site being inaccurate rather than: 1) correcting prices or 2) coming to the realization (that everyones already came to) that they're overvaluing their own hat. 

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17360377 Wants 14. 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17225266 wanted 17. 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16505092 Sold for: cloudy modest - secret lucky shot - 1.5 buds (modest might be duped--didn't check) [about 13 buds]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17013606 accepted Terror watt crones - secret lucky (didn't go through) [also around 13 more than likely]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17013606 appears to have traded for a c9 crones - secret lucky (and maybe something else) [14~ if no sweets were added]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17370514 Yours, which you bought off a scammer, so i'm sure you paid less than 14.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14912520 Wanted 13, took over 2 months to sell. Possibly sold for a burning tower + SF Mini + sweets. [10~ buds, but the offer was also made over a month before the trade was closed...so probably didn't happen]

 

So yea, 14~ seems pretty accurate. 

[Timrod]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17360377 Wants 14. 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17225266 wanted 17. 

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/16505092 Sold for: cloudy modest - secret lucky shot - 1.5 buds (modest might be duped--didn't check) [about 13 buds]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17013606 accepted Terror watt crones - secret lucky (didn't go through) [also around 13 more than likely]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17013606 appears to have traded for a c9 crones - secret lucky (and maybe something else) [14~ if no sweets were added]

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/17370514 Yours, which you bought off a scammer, so i'm sure you paid less than 14.

http://www.tf2outpost.com/trade/14912520 Wanted 13, took over 2 months to sell. Possibly sold for a burning tower + SF Mini + sweets. [10~ buds, but the offer was also made over a month before the trade was closed...so probably didn't happen]

 

So yea, 14~ seems pretty accurate.

 

No, it really isn't. They're selling at 14 because a trader, two years ago, told them to sell it at 14. Thanks for calling me a scammer for trading for a hat two years ago from someone who was not (at the time) marked on SteamRep. Real professional of you.

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Lol ok. First off, i never said you were a scammmer; simply that you bought off a scammer AND:

 

As of October 8th, 2012 he was marked. He put the trade up on November 20th 2012. So at the time you bought it he had already been marked for at least a month. 

 

So you're telling me, that once a price is listed it can never change? By that logic every price on this site will be correct forever. 

 

@Mods, i'm sorry, but once these new hats/effects get priced you guys will need to find something else to do with your time since this site will be 100% correct for the remainder of time. So you guys will be very bored, at least until valve adds some new hats or effects. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.