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SteamRep Appeal Data


Baloo

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On 3/19/2023 at 1:13 AM, Lava said:

 

Just pointing out, as a TF2 Outpost admin at the time of the incident, Baloo was subject to additional scrutiny and stricter guidelines than a normal trader would be. Whether you agree with this decision or not, community admins are held to a higher standard by policy, all green-tagged admins know this, and the appeals admin specifically explained that in their decision. With greater power trust, comes greater responsibility. If this were a normal trader, the tag might have been fully removed.

Outpost has been gone for so long lots of people don't even know what it is, unnecessary rules like that make no sense and are why Steamrep was always a flawed system of community trust. It's all based on nepotism and one small group of people trying to control the way an entire game community operates. What good reason do you have for things like Baloo still having a caution? Even real life felony or misdemeanor charges can be removed from your record in the United States, actual real life crimes. The fact that something like that still merits a warning is crazy to me.

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6 hours ago, Jams said:

It's all based on nepotism and one small group of people trying to control the way an entire game community operates. What good reason do you have for things like Baloo still having a caution?

Help me understand your point here – You accuse us of nepotism, but then at the same time complain because we were harsher with “one of our own” than we'd be with the general public due to his trusted position with us? Isn't that the exact opposite of favoritism?

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8 hours ago, Lava said:

Help me understand your point here – You accuse us of nepotism, but then at the same time complain because we were harsher with “one of our own” than we'd be with the general public due to his trusted position with us? Isn't that the exact opposite of favoritism?

Respectfully, I'm not trying to argue on a 5 year old thread about Steamrep. I stated my opinion and Steamrep is basically irreverent for most of the steam community in the modern day so it's a non issue in my eyes. You also totally ignored my second point that its nearly impossible to have convictions changed or reconsidered. Also, you guys just don't like Baloo. If you did the caution would have never happened. I recall situations like the Wayne v d0 debacle, Wayne was more liked by you guys so he was declared the victor even though both were doing shady stuff.

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4 minutes ago, Jams said:

Respectfully, I'm not trying to argue on a 5 year old thread about Steamrep. I stated my opinion and Steamrep is basically irreverent for most of the steam community in the modern day so it's a non issue in my eyes. You also totally ignored my second point that its nearly impossible to have convictions changed or reconsidered. Also, you guys just don't like Baloo. If you did the caution would have never happened. I recall situations like the Wayne v d0 debacle, Wayne was more liked by you guys so he was declared the victor even though both were doing shady stuff.

Trading community in a nutshell.

THE INTERNET, in a nutshell.

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1 hour ago, Jams said:

Respectfully, I'm not trying to argue on a 5 year old thread about Steamrep.

You say you don't want to argue, but you're openly accusing us of nepotism and playing favorites. As someone being publicly accused of foul play, don't I have a right to defend against baseless accusations?

 

1 hour ago, Jams said:

You also totally ignored my second point that its nearly impossible to have convictions changed or reconsidered.

I ignored that point about overturning convictions out of respect, and to not derail the discussion. I really don't think the US justice system is something you want to aspire to or compare against as a model, because it's not the shining beacon of fairness and humanity you're making it out to be. Overturning convictions or expunging felonies from your record is not anywhere near as easy (or guaranteed) as you make it out to be, and it's also expensive to try, which convicts often can't legitimately afford. Criminal records are designed to be punitive and lasting, some would even say intentionally sadistic, where a single brush with the law WILL permanently ruin anyone's life - it prevents you from renting apartments, seeking employment, and a host of other things, often forcing people into a life of crime to survive. Cases where someone clears their name are the exception, not the norm, and not all states even allow that. With the US justice system, the cruelty of that harsh, lifelong punishment is the point of your criminal record, whereas with SteamRep it's just a side effect of us credibly reporting on your past as a scammer. Incidentally, we plan on offering a clemency program in the future specifically to lessen that punitive effect, because while tags were always permanent, none of us expected SteamRep to last as long as it did.

 

1 hour ago, Jams said:

Also, you guys just don't like Baloo. If you did the caution would have never happened.

I'm calling bullshit. You may not like the decision, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it was a personal vendetta. Our rationale is clear for all to see, read it for yourself. The admin acknowledged that Baloo was a trusted community admin - which means he was held to a higher standard by policy - and was particularly worried about setting a precedent which might appear lenient to "one of our own".

 

Liking or not liking a particular person is not a factor in this or any of our decisions. We are EXTREMELY strict about admins NEVER handling cases where they have any kind of real, or perceived conflict of interests. That most commonly means the appeals admin must never have been involved in the case before (one of the reasons appeals are one-per-person), but it also means any admin with any kind of relationship with the appellant is strictly prohibited from touching their case. And failure to follow that rule is specifically listed as a reason you can request an appeal review which would allow you to overturn the decision, bar the admin from ever touching any of your cases again, and re-appeal with a different admin.

 

Baloo criticized our process as archaic, and he's not completely wrong. SteamRep is slow to change largely because we hamstring ourselves so tightly with strict policies, such that no single admin who thinks we need to adapt can have the necessary autonomy. Playing favorites would never fly here because all the admins are constantly on guard against eachother, paranoid that one of us might go rogue or play favorites one day, and often scrutinizing eachother's work in the custom infrastructure we built with accountability in mind. If there's one thing we're good at, it's keeping that kind of favoritism out. I couldn't overturn your friends' case(s) even if I wanted to; that would be favoritism, and it would light up like a Christmas tree if I tried.

 

1 hour ago, Jams said:

I recall situations like the Wayne v d0 debacle, Wayne was more liked by you guys so he was declared the victor even though both were doing shady stuff.

Accusing us of playing favorites with Wayne here is just downright wrong, so I'm going to ask that you back that claim up. Not just a bunch of copypastas that d0 made up and spammed everywhere - show me actual, verifiable proof that our admins conspired against your friend d0 as a personal favor for Wayne, and I'll make sure it's taken care of. Otherwise, I'm going to assume you're slandering us and arguing in bad faith because you're bitter about your friend getting in trouble.

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At this point, I am not here to have a serious discussion about the merits, or lack thereof, of my perpetual SteamRep tag. There is no resolution to work towards, and I made my peace with that fact years ago.

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