SteamRep Appeal Data

[Baloo]

I finished all my finals for the semester, so now I have about a week to chill until my internship starts. I decided during this downtime to make a spreadsheet about accepted SteamRep appeals. It contains the 17 appeals accepted thus far in 2017. This includes a link to each case along with the duration the appeal was open.  Truly a great use of my time.

 

Click here for a link to the spreadsheet

 

Based on average ban length (disregarding the noted incorrect bans), I'll need to wait at least another 2 years before my appeal is potentially accepted.

 

Get hyped

[Cave]

Thanks for doing this research, just shows how Steamrep can't keep up with appeals or don't care about them;

[iTrade ™]

Pretty sad that it takes this long but this is true also for their partner communities. On Harpoon for example appeals also take ages.

[Professional Map Painter]

Good luck.

[fluffyy]

Kick back and relax buddy

[Happysedits]

i wish d0 is in there

[AwesomeMcCoolName]

Good luck.

TMW I'm banned on SOP for telling him to go shove it.

[SpotlightR]

Your ban still makes me super angry tbh. 

Also, the average appeal time exceeds TWO YEARS. Either Steamrep's admins don't commit enough time to supporting the site or they need more admins. Hopefully, it's the second.

 

Some people that have finally been granted their appeals after like three years have been offline for 1-2 years. That's like acquiting a person of a crime after they've already been killed on death row. What's the point of granting their appeal for their (falsified) ban if they can't even appreciate it? That wasted time could be used on cases that matter such as Baloo's.

(Cases 12, 13, 17)

[Baloo]

As per request from an unnamed friend,

 

Here is the data for accepted SteamRep appeals from 2016

 

I may have missed a few, potentially. You are also welcome to criticize what I deemed as an exemption. I still calculated the overall appeal length to be roughly 620 days. I also think its highly interesting that at the beginning of the year, You Are The One unbanned multiple accounts originally banned in 2013 simply because they had been banned a long time.

 

 

Side note: These are my favorite excerpt posts from all the threads

 

"I am granting your appeal, I accept it was a joke and no harm was intended." - 3 years to get a joke

"Despite lack of followup, their is no evidence of intent to scam, just impersonation that alone, we do not tag for anymore." - noice

[HarryG]

 

"Despite lack of followup, their is no evidence of intent to scam, just impersonation that alone, we do not tag for anymore." - noice

The hypocrisy oozing from this statement physically upsets me.

[Lava]

I'm not sure what kind of conclusion you're trying to draw here. We have never at any point denied our appeals are backlogged, and I guarantee not a single one of our admins are happy about it. You're more than welcome to keep these metrics - they're public record for a reason - so feel free to drill down all the way to the very first appeal if you're so inclined. Some interesting tidbits I think you'll find, based on my own time as an admin:

• Not a lot of different admins working in appeals the past few years. This is because in appeals, you have a much greater chance of fake evidence and lying; and because your decision is final.
• Some newer appeals are handled quickly. This is because we pre-screen any incoming appeals to prevent likely innocent traders from remaining tagged for a long time.
• After pre-screening, appeals are broken down by year:
  • Pre-2013 appeals
  • 2013-2014 appeals
  • later appeals
  • Caution tags
  This is because the oldest appeals submitted by creating a thread before we had the fancy appeal form, likely abandoned by now, take longer to work. So some 2013-2014 appeals were handled accordingly from the start of that year, in the interest of greater common good for greatest number of people, and cautions handled from a separate queue because they're significantly fewer in number.
• To further protect innocent people, we created a "change of heart" appeals section, which is handled with lower priority than the ones claiming innocence.
• If you keep track of individual admins, you'll find that the vast majority are handled by You Are The One. For all the hate he gets, and all the community members demanding we fire him because they don't like him, he's kind of the main person dropping tags from innocent people. Kind of an essential volunteer, no?

Now unlike most of the "corrupt steamrep" spam that goes around, our appeal backlog is a very valid criticism. But for all the complaints here, how many of you have volunteered to be a part of the solution by applying as a SteamRep moderator (to later be promoted to admin, then appeals admin)? Or perhaps you have suggestions on how we could improve? That was specifically what I laid out in my own reasons for applying.

Other than just proving how long appeals take, which feels kind of like common knowledge to me, was there something in particular you're looking for? Maybe something I could shed a little light on?
 

i wish d0 is in there

Funny you mention that case. We're the ones waiting on him. https://forums.steamrep.com/posts/429500

If the two of you are friends, could you by chance tell your buddy to check his appeal?
 

The hypocrisy oozing from this statement physically upsets me.

Link to policy, for reference. We have a written policy on tagging for impersonation. Summarized, intent to scam is required for a tag, but with the thousands of fake "Steam admins" mass-creating accounts and impersonating community admins, that intent is implied if the person being impersonated has a green tag. You might not like the policy, or our reasons for implementing it, but I don't see anything hypocritical here.

The case linked here was also a really old case, tag issued in February 2012. We've revised our evidence requirements several times over the years to be significantly stricter, specifically to prevent innocent people from getting caught in the crossfire. Ever find people soapboxing about their report being "unfairly" rejected and us "defending" or "releasing" a scammer from "justice"? That's why: They didn't meet the evidence requirements, so the report was tossed out. It's very realistic you will find some older (3+ years) cases with a lighter standard of evidence, and hence their appeals are more likely to be granted for "insufficient evidence". Not even accounting for evidence that may be lost to time (we were more lenient about 3rd-party image hosting back then).

Your ban still makes me super angry tbh. 
Also, the average appeal time exceeds TWO YEARS. Either Steamrep's admins don't commit enough time to supporting the site or they need more admins. Hopefully, it's the second.
 
Some people that have finally been granted their appeals after like three years have been offline for 1-2 years. That's like acquiting a person of a crime after they've already been killed on death row. What's the point of granting their appeal for their (falsified) ban if they can't even appreciate it? That wasted time could be used on cases that matter such as Baloo's.
(Cases 12, 13, 17)

Accounting for the breakdown above, we handle appeals first-in-first-out, without playing favorites. We also specifically screen new appeals for signs of fake evidence before adding them to this queue. If you see some cases handled out of order, that's probably why. Most the rest who get tossed into the backlog to wait a long time are:

• Lying to get unbanned from some trading website, which will require significant time commitments from experienced admins to investigate and confirm.
• Asking for a second chance at a clean reputation, which is sometimes possible depending on the offense or individual circumstances. These boil down to an overall assessment of character then judgement call, and take a really long time to handle.
• Their case is old and the evidence requirements have since gotten stricter. Doesn't necessarily mean innocent, just not enough to prove by our standards today.

Or if I may be so bold, are you suggesting with this line,

That wasted time could be used on cases that matter such as Baloo's.

that we start playing favorites???
 

I also think its highly interesting that at the beginning of the year, You Are The One unbanned multiple accounts originally banned in 2013 simply because they had been banned a long time.

If we have no evidence of further offenses, insufficient evidence or documentation for original offense, the person has been waiting a very long time without any admin reply, and the account seems abandoned, the admin has discretion to reduce to caution or outright unmark instead of denying for lack of reply. This is because it's unfair to deny for lack of reply after we ourselves couldn't answer them for so long. They probably happened at the start of the year, handled all at once from a list, because we break appeals down by which year they were submitted.

[Happysedits]

Funny you mention that case. We're the ones waiting on him. https://forums.steamrep.com/posts/429500

If the two of you are friends, could you by chance tell your buddy to check his appeal?

Actually, we never really talked, but he was top 1 with the most reputation points from suggesting prices on main website, now I am top 1 http://backpack.tf/top/contributors(not the best tho, there are much more quality people) I don't have him in friendlist so I can't.

[Baloo]

I'm not sure what kind of conclusion you're trying to draw here. [...]

Other than just proving how long appeals take, which feels kind of like common knowledge to me, was there something in particular you're looking for? Maybe something I could shed a little light on? [...]

 

The conclusion I am drawing is I should have no expectation of potentially having my appeal accepted in the next year, or even two years, based on the current rate appeals have been handled in the past. I am fully aware it is a volunteer position and a thankless job. I did not make this thread as a means to attack SteamRep administrators; only to share my thought of when I may have my tag removed based on the public data of the SteamRep archives.

 

Now unlike most of the "corrupt steamrep" spam that goes around, our appeal backlog is a very valid criticism. But for all the complaints here, how many of you have volunteered to be a part of the solution by applying as a SteamRep moderator (to later be promoted to admin, then appeals admin)? Or perhaps you have suggestions on how we could improve? That was specifically what I laid out in my own reasons for applying

 

None of my comments on this thread have called SteamRep corrupt. If you wish to reference my comment about the multiple people appealing in 2013 who were accepted in 2016 as counterpoint, then it would be incorrectly founded. I added this observation because I believe it is valid to acknowledge multiple people being granted their appeal in a short amount of time mainly because they did not receive any follow-up for years, and essentially went inactive on Steam.

 

Or if I may be so bold, are you suggesting with this line,

that we start playing favorites???

 

I'm aware this statement was not addressed towards me, however, I am choosing to give a response. I have already stated to You Are The One that I accept and understand my place in the queue of SteamRep appeals, and do not aim to be expedited by voicing my opinions.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This being said, I now move on to my personal thoughts on my situation. I am not here to debate my case with a SteamRep administrator, nor take away from time you could have invested handling appeals which have been waiting a far greater time than my own.

 

In a recent status by Happysedits, he shows a screenshot of a statement you made, Lava. I feel the statement is rather generalized, and misses key information for context. First, my alternate account was reported to a Fortress of Gamers administrator by myself immediately upon its name and profile picture change. When the alternate account was created, the custom URL was "NotAngelMander", as noted in the Web Archive link in the original Fortress of Gamers report. The account has been offline for over 700 days now, and growing. The account has not traded in over two years, as shown in the screenshot of the trade history in the SteamRep appeal. Additionally the way you "found he's an admins alt" is by me posting a status here on the backpack.tf forums. There was no digging for information or tracking accounts. All information was easily accessible from the start as laid out by myself.

 

In conclusion, in my opinion, the longer it takes for SteamRep administrators to decide whether or not there was actual intent to scam on either my main or alternate account (both of which still have yet to trade again since the ban) only reflects poorly on SteamRep to function up to par with the demand it generates and authority it commands in the Steam community.

 

If it takes 3 years to determine it was a harmless act like it did for this user, then it will look worse for SteamRep than it will for me.

[Lava]

Please understand: Because you have an open appeal, I cannot discuss any specifics of your case. This is to avoid compromising the case. As much as I'd like to, by policy I can only speak generally. Any correspondence regarding your case belongs in your open appeal.

 

As far as expediting, it's not just about time allotment, but about not playing favorites. We pre-screen incoming appeals for potentially innocent people caught in the crossfire. YATO is handling your case, and unless I hear otherwise he's going to make the call on when/how it's handled. Not my call what he decides, and not my place to give opinion, commentary, or speculation on it.

[Baloo]

On 5/15/2017 at 1:59 AM, Lava said:

Please understand: Because you have an open appeal, I cannot discuss any specifics of your case. This is to avoid compromising the case. As much as I'd like to, by policy I can only speak generally. Any correspondence regarding your case belongs in your open appeal.

 

As far as expediting, it's not just about time allotment, but about not playing favorites. We pre-screen incoming appeals for potentially innocent people caught in the crossfire. YATO is handling your case, and unless I hear otherwise he's going to make the call on when/how it's handled. Not my call what he decides, and not my place to give opinion, commentary, or speculation on it.

 

unban me

[Apo]

13 hours ago, Baloo said:

 

unban me

It is time. (never should have happened tbh)

[eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee]

On 5/22/2022 at 6:00 AM, Apo said:

It is time. (never should have happened tbh)

why was he banned?

[Apo]

22 hours ago, eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee said:

why was he banned?

"Impersonation with intent to scam"

They had the same Steam display name as a green tagged SteamRep user (Angelmander) on their alt. There was never any attempt to defraud or scam anyone. No suspicious chatlogs or anything.

[Baloo]

10 hours ago, Apo said:

"Impersonation with intent to scam"

They had the same Steam display name as a green tagged SteamRep user (Angelmander) on their alt. There was never any attempt to defraud or scam anyone. No suspicious chatlogs or anything.

 

It was a petty action made over 6 years ago at this point. Angelmander had been indefinitely banned on TF2Outpost for something and eventually was unbanned. They went on to cofound a SteamRep competitor which failed, and then Angel became an admin(?) for Fortress of Gamers (FoG). I went on FoG one day and noticed there was a bunch of people being tagged as impersonators by admins for just having the same name as admins. I used my old Steam account to change my name to Angelmander and then self-reported it same day on FoG. It was tagged, and then I was tagged. My ban was downgraded to a caution, and I was told it never should have been a ban.

 

SteamRep's appeal process is so archaic that I will likely never have the caution tag removed. Its whatever, whole thing is dumb, myself included.

[AwesomeSause]

On 2/27/2023 at 5:23 PM, Baloo said:

 

It was a petty action made over 6 years ago at this point. Angelmander had been indefinitely banned on TF2Outpost for something and eventually was unbanned. They went on to cofound a SteamRep competitor which failed, and then Angel became an admin(?) for Fortress of Gamers (FoG). I went on FoG one day and noticed there was a bunch of people being tagged as impersonators by admins for just having the same name as admins. I used my old Steam account to change my name to Angelmander and then self-reported it same day on FoG. It was tagged, and then I was tagged. My ban was downgraded to a caution, and I was told it never should have been a ban.

 

SteamRep's appeal process is so archaic that I will likely never have the caution tag removed. Its whatever, whole thing is dumb, myself included.

So you impersonated someone? No wonder.

[Baloo]

2 hours ago, AwesomeSause said:

So you impersonated someone? No wonder.

[Jams]

1 hour ago, Baloo said:

The fact that you're still cautioned amazes me, always hated steamrep when the community wasn't dead but the fact that they still have such power is ridiculous. 

[Lava]

9 hours ago, Jams said:

The fact that you're still cautioned amazes me, always hated steamrep when the community wasn't dead but the fact that they still have such power is ridiculous. 

 

Just pointing out, as a TF2 Outpost admin at the time of the incident, Baloo was subject to additional scrutiny and stricter guidelines than a normal trader would be. Whether you agree with this decision or not, community admins are held to a higher standard by policy, all green-tagged admins know this, and the appeals admin specifically explained that in their decision. With greater power trust, comes greater responsibility. If this were a normal trader, the tag might have been fully removed.

[AwesomeSause]

13 hours ago, Baloo said:

I can see why you might have been banned.

[Baloo]

18 hours ago, Lava said:

 

Just pointing out, as a TF2 Outpost admin at the time of the incident, Baloo was subject to additional scrutiny and stricter guidelines than a normal trader would be. Whether you agree with this decision or not, community admins are held to a higher standard by policy, all green-tagged admins know this, and the appeals admin specifically explained that in their decision. With greater power trust, comes greater responsibility. If this were a normal trader, the tag might have been fully removed.

15 hours ago, AwesomeSause said:

I can see why you might have been banned.