Price Suggestions

[Aaron (Mr. Smee)]

From time to time, myself and many, many other players question the legitimacy of any and all prices suggested on this website. From what I can tell, they are based on trends and continued as such. Whomever sells a new item first for a price sets the standard, normally the cheapest price or the one the user who submits it most agrees with. Then you make that standard well known and keep it going. Problem is, this website doesn't account for actual value from rarity (quantity), source, quality and demand, which is impossible to determine accurately. 

 

I'd rather not make a fuss over anything, but by no logical or real world economics could a key be 6 ref, factoring metal inflation that this website has been reporting. Don't believe me on that one, listen to these gents:

 

http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/864979883881944149/

http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/864979883885424440/?tscn=1379991942

http://steamcommunity.com/app/440/discussions/0/864979883884137243/

 

As you may hopefully know, not everyone values items the same way. I traded a Botkiller wrench for an Ap Sap. According to this website, I basically "conned" this guy (even though it was his proposal) but we both got what we wanted, no overpay or "metal price" balancing of the sort. That's genuine trading. Why does this website dictate how people are supposed to trade? 

 

How about prices of keys to hats? While this website says keys are worth 6 ref, why are hats, once valued at 2 ref, not 4 ref if they're still popular? Why are they 1.33? That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever. How about the Team Captain? There are over 46 k in existence but it's valued at a key? And dirty is 3.33? 

Clearly, certain trades are valued more than others. 

How about buds. Why are they so special when there are 76 k in existence? That's one for almost every online TF2 player! How about the Tux? It doesn't even have a price check.

 

So, can somebody justify the way prices are set around here? 

You can tell me that you guys "just report it", but that's not true. You can't possibly report even some trades on less popular 3rd party sites or in game. Trends tend to happen on outpost so there isn't much legitimacy to speak for the rest of TF2. Just sayin'. 

What this website reports has a huge effect on the trading scene and tends to make it worse for most players. 

[MC22]

#SAVETEHKEEEEEEEEEEEEEEYS!!!!111oneoneone

 

this is the 7th time I've seen this. There are more, but they were probably locked and I ignored them

proof please or downvote.

[Pyroman]

Why does this website dictate how people are supposed to trade? 

God why do people always miss these little 2 lines of text...

Backpack.tf is NOT A BIBLE it's just meant to be a PRICELIST THAT GIVES AN ITEM'S ESTIMATED VALUE. You're not forced to follow it, and it's there for convenience.

[Avenging Flame]

#SAVETEHKEYZ

 

If you want to say that keys are not 6 ref, then find buttloads of keys selling under 6 ref. You can make suggestions on this site just like anyone. If you think you have proof to #SAVETEHKEYZ then do so

[Aaron (Mr. Smee)]

I don't look at this website as a bible, but other people do basically. They see the numbers and think that's how it's works. You can't just say this website doesn't have an influence over people because it does. There are many idiots who will preach and enforce the prices made here. "Prices may not be updated". Really? A website this important isn't on top of things? I think not. This website is one of the most used for price checking so, yeah, there's a big issue with it.Any price suggested and accepted basically becomes common law unfortunately and there is no way to reverse the damage. I once tried suggesting a price and it got shot down. It wasn't unfair. It was to help compensate for the users who don't agree with low balling prices. 

 

Also, nobody has answered how this website's methodology to price checking is legitimate. 

[The G What ™]

I like to do point-by-point responses. So here we go.

 

From time to time, myself and many, many other players question the legitimacy of any and all prices suggested on this website.

-Valid point, all suggestions are open to comments and criticism. You've only voted 16 times though.

 

From what I can tell, they are based on trends and continued as such. Whomever sells a new item first for a price sets the standard, normally the cheapest price or the one the user who submits it most agrees with. Then you make that standard well known and keep it going. 

-Not at all. Suggestions on new items require proof of sale, just like unusuals. Example. 

 

Problem is, this website doesn't account for actual value from rarity (quantity), source, quality and demand, which is impossible to determine accurately. 

-Rarity does not equate value, in either virtual or real life economies.

 

I'd rather not make a fuss over anything, but by no logical or real world economics could a key be 6 ref, factoring metal inflation that this website has been reporting. Don't believe me on that one, listen to these gents:

- That's the thing. Team Fortress 2 is NOT a real world economy. Nothing traded is real. Everything is pixels. Any rules or speculation based on real world economics do not apply. 

http://steamcommunit...79883881944149/

http://steamcommunit...tscn=1379991942

http://steamcommunit...79883884137243/

 

-I just see a lot of speculation and nostalgia.

 

As you may hopefully know, not everyone values items the same way. I traded a Botkiller wrench for an Ap Sap. According to this website, I basically "conned" this guy (even though it was his proposal) but we both got what we wanted, no overpay or "metal price" balancing of the sort.

-Good for you! That was a good deal. Being said, he could have traded his ap-sap for a key and metal, then bought five botkiller wrenches with the amount he got. THAT is the purpose of this website.

 

That's genuine trading. Why does this website dictate how people are supposed to trade? 

-It doesn't. You're free to ask whatever you like in a trade. This website simply reports the most common values for items when they are traded by reporting market trends. Go ahead and make a trade to buy keys for 2.33 ref, and see how many you get.

 

How about prices of keys to hats? While this website says keys are worth 6 ref, why are hats, once valued at 2 ref, not 4 ref if they're still popular?

-If you disagree with a price, you are free to suggest a new one. Popularity has nothing to do with demand, or price. 

 

Why are they 1.33?

--Because they are easily bought for that amount,

 

That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever.

-With more users than ever. 

 

How about the Team Captain? There are over 46 k in existence but it's valued at a key? And dirty is 3.33? 

-Again, market trends dictate this. Traders have been shown to pay those amounts. Again, you are invited to suggest a new price for any item.

 

Clearly, certain trades are valued more than others. 

-I have no inkling what this is supposed to mean. Care to elaborate?

 

How about buds. Why are they so special when there are 76 k in existence? That's one for almost every online TF2 player! How about the Tux? It doesn't even have a price check.

- Because people pay more for them. The Tux is not priced as there has never been a recorded sale, because it's not tradeable. 

 

So, can somebody justify the way prices are set around here? 

You can tell me that you guys "just report it", but that's not true. You can't possibly report even some trades on less popular 3rd party sites or in game. Trends tend to happen on outpost so there isn't much legitimacy to speak for the rest of TF2. Just sayin'. 

What this website reports has a huge effect on the trading scene and tends to make it worse for most players. 

-blah blah blah blah. None of this has any merit or logical thought behind it. There are plenty of guides and resources in place to answer these questions. Use the searchbar. 

[Pyroman]

Also, nobody has answered how this website's methodology to price checking is legitimate. 

It is legitmate because every single pricing suggestion is backed up with proof that (most of the time) covers all of the market that can be seen on third party websites (trade servers are not included unless OP has the ability to include trade history, which most of the time is not), it's meant to just give a general idea on what an item sells for, and isn't meant to dictate prices.

 

As for your suggestion... http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5238f2d04cd7b8271a8b4568

You only provided search links, which in the first place are not even valid proof, and if you wanted to include the few sellers at higher prices in the range, then those must have sold for the suggested price. Not to mention, there were lots (and I mean, lots) of S. Pomson sellers at 6 keys. Given how this is a majority of the traders, the few that sell for higher prices should just be outliers.

Not to mention the amount of proof given in the previous suggestion, http://backpack.tf/vote/id/5235f4eb4f96f4c4038b456c , which at the time was all that there was available.

[Pyroman]

"Prices may not be updated". Really? A website this important isn't on top of things? I think not. This website is one of the most used for price checking so, yeah, there's a big issue with it.

The site is community contributed, nobody here gives any arbitrary prices at all, this is not a dictature (except for the first few days when Brad actually set prices on all existing unusuals, which were later updated). Not every single price is obviously going to be updated (unless a lifeless repwhore like me actually takes their time to make thousands of accurate, up-to-date prices on little pixels), mostly on rare items like the glitched 1 of 1 ones or unusuals, given how rare their are and the huge variety among them. Not to mention, everyday there are 7-9 pages of active suggestions, and mods have to accept/reject these suggestions everyday, they're not slaves and their work is really hard. They can't be like robots standing all day in front of their computers checking every single corner of the site. There's several troll suggestions/proofless suggestions each day (like yours) which just gives more hard work to our mods.

[Aaron (Mr. Smee)]

That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever.

-"With more users than ever. "

 

 

Don't lie to me. I'm not an idiot.

http://steamcharts.com/app/440#All

 

If we're going to talk market trends, little proof is provided besides outpost and a couple other sites, if even. The market is huge and this website is selective. I can't blame users individually but there should be more than a day's worth of voting from a couple hundred people to determine what's good with the several thousand who play. 

 

If this website is only going to serve suggestions, it should say so as a pop up message or on top of the screen. Many people don't know that and think it's common price. 

[Avenging Flame]

That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever.

 

As long as people are still buying and selling for increasing prices, they will keep going up. Until people start selling for lower, the price will remain

[Aaron (Mr. Smee)]

As long as people are still buying and selling for increasing prices, they will keep going up. Until people start selling for lower, the price will remain

And there's the problem. Somebody reported on a transaction or two that was way out of line and it escalated from there. "Speculation" occurred and now we have an unstable currency. It's time for some affirmative action. 

[Pyroman]

And there's the problem. Somebody reported on a transaction or two that was way out of line and it escalated from there. "Speculation" occurred and now we have an unstable currency. It's time for some affirmative action. 

It was not a transaction or two, it was the whole outpost, which simply ran out of keys and got filled with key hoarders who bought all of them during halloween due to the highly increased demand.

[♠Derpeh♤]

That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever.

-"With more users than ever. "

 

 

Don't lie to me. I'm not an idiot.

http://steamcharts.com/app/440#All

 

If we're going to talk market trends, little proof is provided besides outpost and a couple other sites, if even. The market is huge and this website is selective. I can't blame users individually but there should be more than a day's worth of voting from a couple hundred people to determine what's good with the several thousand who play.

 

If this website is only going to serve suggestions, it should say so as a pop up message or on top of the screen. Many people don't know that and think it's common price.

 

No one is lying to you. Compared to a year and a half ago when keys were 2.33 ref there has been the obvious increase.

 

Also you're forgetting that valve is doing everything it can to make the black market price to be around the same as the official.

- the hammered down on carders cutting put supply of cheap keys

- ref doesnt do anything now. Ever since dirty hats were changed there is no reason really to craft. Metal is free you play you get.

- keys are always in demand, manu people unbox. Refs is basically useless

- valve's constant new crap making people uncrate. Ie people use their key and mostly get a crap hat(metal) further increasing metal supply and decreasing keys. Summer sale, robo, haloween, christmas, new years...etc

 

The mistake you are also making is that not every player trades many players have a few hats and they are happy. So you cant assume that every player does. Also bp.tf isnt a bible, if it was then there will be no suggestions because people wont beable to find proofs. The prices on bp are not perfect it is a guide if the guide is wrong you have the power to change it.

 

Instead of complaining about prices why not work with the system and improve it. This mainly a comunity run website...

[The G What ™]

That means the price for keys are increasing even though supply is higher than ever.

-"With more users than ever. "

 

 

Don't lie to me. I'm not an idiot.

http://steamcharts.com/app/440#All

 

-Apparently you are. http://stats.tf2finance.com/#slots tf2finance scans 78,000,000 unique non-empty backpacks.

 

If we're going to talk market trends, little proof is provided besides outpost and a couple other sites, if even. The market is huge and this website is selective. I can't blame users individually but there should be more than a day's worth of voting from a couple hundred people to determine what's good with the several thousand who play. 

 

-So besides Outpost, Bazaar, Classifieds, and tf2tp, what other sites should be monitored? And key suggestions usually stay up a week or longer, and have hundreds of comments and proof/counterproof. You honestly don't seem to understand how this site works, as if you can't read or something. Or maybe couldn't be bothered.

 

If this website is only going to serve suggestions, it should say so as a pop up message or on top of the screen. Many people don't know that and think it's common price. 

 

-It's right at the top of every page listing prices. If people don't read it, that is their fault.

[The G What ™]

And there's the problem. Somebody reported on a transaction or two that was way out of line and it escalated from there. "Speculation" occurred and now we have an unstable currency. It's time for some affirmative action. 

I was waiting for the other shoe to fall. We got ourselves a #savetehkeyzzz here.

[Liddojunior]

Tf2 players aren't the only ones demanding keys.

Lots of game traders rely on keys

Dota players take in tf2 items

Cs go even trades with tf2 currency. So demand is there for keys.

 

I wanted to point that out when you mentioned the playerbase

[Roller]

To be honest, I don't like how backpack.tf changes key prices. I think the currency should be stabilized no matter what. It's blocking me to trade stuff. The community feedback had blocked the community. In the future, if keys are going more higher, there MUST be a Team Fortress 2 Corruption.

[Puddilicious]

I don't look at this website as a bible, but other people do basically. They see the numbers and think that's how it's works. You can't just say this website doesn't have an influence over people because it does. There are many idiots who will preach and enforce the prices made here. "Prices may not be updated". Really? A website this important isn't on top of things? I think not. This website is one of the most used for price checking so, yeah, there's a big issue with it.Any price suggested and accepted basically becomes common law unfortunately and there is no way to reverse the damage. I once tried suggesting a price and it got shot down. It wasn't unfair. It was to help compensate for the users who don't agree with low balling prices. 

 

Also, nobody has answered how this website's methodology to price checking is legitimate. 

We would love to be able to keep every price up to date, but we have only a handful of people actively updating prices and only a handful of people to make sure those prices are correct. The community helps with their voting, but it's really just a handful of people keeping this site going. We do the best we can with the people we have.

 

As for people using our pricelist as a bible, it is unfortunate. I advise you to direct them to our disclaimer that our prices are suggested values only and may not be up to date, but people can and will use our prieclist however they want. If they refuse to budge on price, then move on to a different seller. Whether a pricelist exists or not, people should be free to sell for whatever price they want.

[Roller]

We would love to be able to keep every price up to date, but we have only a handful of people actively updating prices and only a handful of people to make sure those prices are correct. The community helps with their voting, but it's really just a handful of people keeping this site going. We do the best we can with the people we have.

 

As for people using our pricelist as a bible, it is unfortunate. I advise you to direct them to our disclaimer that our prices are suggested values only and may not be up to date, but people can and will use our prieclist however they want. If they refuse to budge on price, then move on to a different seller. Whether a pricelist exists or not, people should be free to sell for whatever price they want.

You're my bible :33

[F CHARLIE]

Tf2 players aren't the only ones demanding keys.

Lots of game traders rely on keys

Dota players take in tf2 items

Cs go even trades with tf2 currency. So demand is there for keys.

 

I wanted to point that out when you mentioned the playerbase

 

 

 

People, we can be very proud that this trade economy serves as the base for all the others and that the mann-co key is the currency for all of them and will be for some time to come.

[jjjon123]

So what exactly do you suggest that we do? Do you want use to say keys are 2.33 ref and earbuds are 5 keys? Do you want us to just make up values for items based off of what YOU think they "should" be?

 

Do you want us to say that every hat is atleast 2 ref and that both the dirty and clean team captain is 4 ref? Just because you say that it needs to be that way?

[MC22]

So what exactly do you suggest that we do? Do you want use to say keys are 2.33 ref and earbuds are 5 keys? Do you want us to just make up values for items based off of what YOU think they "should" be?

 

Do you want us to say that every hat is atleast 2 ref and that both the dirty and clean team captain is 4 ref? Just because you say that it needs to be that way?

Yea sir jon that's what they want.

[F CHARLIE]

It amazes me that they don't understand that if we could freeze price of keys than price of everything else would go up.

[CheddarZX]

this idiot 12 year old....lol