Unusual Price in Buds

[Liddojunior]

This needs to be fixed.

Or atleast have it so that buds and keys get their own $$ values and unusuals get locked to those. 

 

Because anything more then a couple of buds have basically shifted by almost a bud and this is only causing offers to be lower and in a way manipulating the market and pushing unusuals down faster then they normally would have gone down

 

 

And buds and keys are way overpriced on $$ here

 

Buds 45.70$

 

Keys 1.87$

[polar]

http://backpack.tf/vote/id/51b3c48eba2536631e00000b

 

This right here is why this needs to be changed as soon as possible. The guy is pricing based on current unusuals values and no pure values. He's counting a burning bicorne as 13 buds (!!!) when the last suggestion for it was for 16-21. And as a result, hes tanking the value of a moon anger by 3+ buds.

[F CHARLIE]

The problem is that if you don't connect them to the common currency of $ then u will create a valuation problem. I believe buds can be bought for $35 or $40, If so, than a bud is cheaper to buy with cash than it is to trade for. 24 keys by $2.50 mann co price, etc. It appears to me that the attempt is to make sure the $ market can't get an unfair advantage over the trade market. Keys are more commonly traded so they may be treated differently. Let me know if that makes sense, I am doing this while on my phone so.

[polar]

The problem is that if you don't connect them to the common currency of $ then u will create a valuation problem. I believe buds can be bought for $35 or $40, If so, than a bud is cheaper to buy with cash than it is to trade for. 24 keys by $2.50 mann co price, etc. It appears to me that the attempt is to make sure the $ market can get an unfair advantage over the trade market. Keys are more commonly traded so they may be treated differently. Let me know if that makes sense, I am doing this while on my phone so.

 

But keys wouldn't be valued by $2.50 mann co prices.... They'd be 1.70-1.80 which is how you get buds at 35-40.

[F CHARLIE]

But keys wouldn't be valued by $2.50 mann co prices.... They'd be 1.70-1.80 which is how you get buds at 35-40.

 

Sorry, as I said, I was on mobile and was writing fast. 

 

A little while ago the bud trade price was dropping while its dollar price was either rising or remaining stable.  The two currencies used to buy unusuals were moving different directions.  It is false to say that a price from three weeks ago, or even evidence from three months ago, is valid.  Would that buyer offer the same today given the other thing the buyer could get today.  If the trade price of buds fall again wouldn't the seller ask for a little more.

 

Brad is right to link these items to the dollar.

[polar]

A little while ago the bud trade price was dropping while its dollar price was either rising or remaining stable.  The two currencies used to buy unusuals were moving different directions.  It is false to say that a price from three weeks ago, or even evidence from three months ago, is valid.  Would that buyer offer the same today given the other thing the buyer could get today.  If the trade price of buds fall again wouldn't the seller ask for a little more.

 

Brad is right to link these items to the dollar.

 

I have priced 200 unusuals on this website. And most of them, especially the high tier ones, have not only maintained the same value in buds but have even increased in the last 3 months. In fact, even the ones that have prices ~6 months old have remarkably maintained similar values in buds. Your statement is flat out incorrect.

[F CHARLIE]

I have priced 200 unusuals on this website. And most of them, especially the high tier ones, have not only maintained the same value in buds but have even increased in the last 3 months. In fact, even the ones that have prices ~6 months old have remarkably maintained similar values in buds. Your statement is flat out incorrect.

 

It would not be true of all unusuals and if their are current offers to support old price than fine.

[Jester]

Until the price of buds in USD can be voted on, the system should store the prices in buds.  For the last few days i have been updating prices right back to their same price that was suggested months ago.  It's like herding cats.....

 

Examples:

http://backpack.tf/v...a2536fd0c00000c

4 month update

Previous accepted price in buds: 3.6-4.2

Deflated price prior to update: 3-3.5

Updated price in buds: 3.8-4.3

Actual price in buds did not change.

 

http://backpack.tf/v...bd7b8441e00000a

1 month update

Previous accepted price in buds: 13-14

Deflated price prior to update: 10.6-11.3

Updated price in buds: 13-14

Actual price in buds did not change.

 

http://backpack.tf/v...a2536ba70000028

3 month update

Previous accepted price in buds: 10-12

Deflated price prior to update: 8.3-10

Updated price in buds: 10-12

Actual price in buds did not change.

 

http://backpack.tf/v...bd7b8e80c000009

3 month update

Previous accepted price in buds: 6.6-7.4

Deflated price prior to update: 5.4-6.1

Updated price in buds: 6.6-7.4

Actual price in buds did not change.

 

I have literally done like a dozen updates in the last few days and this was the situation.  I know Brad's reasoning for using USD, but it's flawed plain and simple.  The vast majority of trading is in-game items for in-game items.  3 bud hats are 3 bud hats today, tomorrow and 3 months from now in most cases.

 

What makes me sad is that he's always "Working on other things" instead of fixing this.  I can understand that it must not interest him and since this is a hobby, it wouldn't be the most fun to completely reprogram the site, but the true economy of TF2 lies in unusuals, that's where the real money exchanges hands and where the majority of the "hard core" traders dwell.  Unfortunately the website is catered to making sure that the $0.90 hat is priced correctly, not the $900 hat.  I feel so disappointed that this pricelist could be one of the greatest things in the trading community, but due to apathy it has become one of the most hated tools used by traders.  If it isn't corrected soon the community will revolt like they have done to the other sites.  I imagine it will happen whenever someone makes a backpack.tf clone that functions correctly.

 

I have been banging this drum since last year, Vincent continued the campaign here: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/30-allow-voting-on-bud-prices-in-usd/ and now we have this thread.  I even reached out to Brad in February, he said the fix was on the backburner because he had other features to implement. 4 months later and the unusual prices are messed up more than ever, but hey, now we can donate $$ and trade cards.

 

Honestly I wish i knew enough about website creation that i could just make my own site

[polar]

Until the price of buds in USD can be voted on, the system should store the prices in buds.  For the last few days i have been updating prices right back to their same price that was suggested months ago.  It's like herding cats.....

 

Honestly I wish i knew enough about website creation that i could just make my own site

 

I don't know how you can be motivated to price these right now.

 

Honestly I wish i knew enough about website creation that i could just make my own site

 

Yup, and I'd help.

[ERASER BY]

 

I have literally done like a dozen updates in the last few days and this was the situation.  I know Brad's reasoning for using USD, but it's flawed plain and simple.  The vast majority of trading is in-game items for in-game items.  3 bud hats are 3 bud hats today, tomorrow and 3 months from now in most cases.

 

What makes me sad is that he's always "Working on other things" instead of fixing this.  I can understand that it must not interest him and since this is a hobby, it wouldn't be the most fun to completely reprogram the site, but the true economy of TF2 lies in unusuals, that's where the real money exchanges hands and where the majority of the "hard core" traders dwell.  Unfortunately the website is catered to making sure that the $0.90 hat is priced correctly, not the $900 hat.  I feel so disappointed that this pricelist could be one of the greatest things in the trading community, but due to apathy it has become one of the most hated tools used by traders.  If it isn't corrected soon the community will revolt like they have done to the other sites.  I imagine it will happen whenever someone makes a backpack.tf clone that functions correctly.

 

I have been banging this drum since last year, Vincent continued the campaign here: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/30-allow-voting-on-bud-prices-in-usd/ and now we have this thread.  I even reached out to Brad in February, he said the fix was on the backburner because he had other features to implement. 4 months later and the unusual prices are messed up more than ever, but hey, now we can donate $$ and trade cards.

 

Honestly I wish i knew enough about website creation that i could just make my own site

 

Yes you are right, the binding system price to $ is not working . On the way out we get the wrong price, then will follow (or already have) reproaches in illiteracy and of incompetence.

Why publish not correct information and mislead not experienced traders about the price of the unusual hats on the site?

[Chief D]

Yes you are right, the binding system price to $ is not working . On the way out we get the wrong price, then will follow (or already have) reproaches in illiteracy and of incompetence.

Why publish not correct information and mislead not experienced traders about the price of the unusual hats on the site?

It's still better than showing no price and let people get sharked. A fix is hopefully coming soon.

[F CHARLIE]

Proofs from old suggestions can't or shouldn't be used in a current suggestion. That proof does not show current demand. As those buyer might not spend that amount today because his bud has more buying power today than it did a few weeks ago when it was suffering a drop in trade price.

 

At that time sellers benifited from bp.tf showing higher prices as the bud dropped and repriced a bunch of unusuals at the higher price point. Now you want to do it even more so while blaming bp.tf and declaring that if Brad doesn't make the change than another site will be built that does. As if buyers will believe in that site more. Arrogance.

 

Jestor (Top Gun fan), I looked at the price change history of the first unusual you listed. When Peasant made the change it was during the drop in bud value. It can be seen as it was a dramtic increase over past changes. What you are doing wreaks of artificial price inflation.

 

Explain ths better so that I may trust you. Do not tell me about a lonf history of pricing expierience like some old man. Win me over witj the strength of your argument.

 

As I looked over all recent accepted changes I noticed the trend. The list is filled with price increases for all sorts of unusuals. I thought it strange because there has recently been new unusuals with new effects added to the game. Logically, the pool of able unusual buyers would move in that direction and the price of others should expierience a temporary drop. Simply put, there are more types to choose from but not likely that many more buyers. We live in a fad culture after all.

[ERASER BY]

It's still better than showing no price and let people get sharked. A fix is hopefully coming soon.

I focuses on the this problem, for the reason that this issue has been raised 4 months ago, but nothing positive has happened System (price in $- price in buds) are still works not accurately and no objective .

 

So that I hope so too that all will be able to to correct .

[Liddojunior]

Proofs from old suggestions can't or shouldn't be used in a current suggestion. That proof does not show current demand. As those buyer might not spend that amount today because his bud has more buying power today than it did a few weeks ago when it was suffering a drop in trade price.

 

At that time sellers benifited from bp.tf showing higher prices as the bud dropped and repriced a bunch of unusuals at the higher price point. Now you want to do it even more so while blaming bp.tf and declaring that if Brad doesn't make the change than another site will be built that does. As if buyers will believe in that site more. Arrogance.

 

Jestor (Top Gun fan), I looked at the price change history of the first unusual you listed. When Peasant made the change it was during the drop in bud value. It can be seen as it was a dramtic increase over past changes. What you are doing wreaks of artificial price inflation.

 

Explain ths better so that I may trust you. Do not tell me about a lonf history of pricing expierience like some old man. Win me over witj the strength of your argument.

 

As I looked over all recent accepted changes I noticed the trend. The list is filled with price increases for all sorts of unusuals. I thought it strange because there has recently been new unusuals with new effects added to the game. Logically, the pool of able unusual buyers would move in that direction and the price of others should expierience a temporary drop. Simply put, there are more types to choose from but not likely that many more buyers. We live in a fad culture after all.

 

The problem is the original suggested price is wrongly shifted down and is no longer what was suggested. And that does push unusual prices down a lot faster. 

[Chief D]

I focuses on the this problem, for the reason that this issue has been raised 4 months ago, but nothing positive has happened System (price in $- price in buds) are still works not accurately and no objective .

 

So that I hope so too that all will be able to to correct .

Well, Woifi just suggested an idea that Brad seemed to like, as it's been said. So all we have to do is wait for Brad to have time to fix the problem.

[ERASER BY]

Well, Woifi just suggested an idea that Brad seemed to like, as it's been said. So all we have to do is wait for Brad to have time to fix the problem.

It is very good that the problem can be solved and not put off until later. Of course Brad everything is decided by, but I am pleased that there is a reaction to this problem - works feedback and he listens to the advice of.

 

Thanks Chief D that you not do not care .

[ERASER BY]

 

[F CHARLIE]

The problem is the original suggested price is wrongly shifted down and is no longer what was suggested. And that does push unusual prices down a lot faster. 

 

Your logic is flawed.  The value of the hat has not been lost at all.  It is exactly the same.  The currency used to price it has changed in its value.  Its is faulty logic to presume that the hat changed with it.

 

If the hat was priced at 3 buds when a bud was 22 keys and keys where 5 ref than that is 330 ref.  For this argument we will allow ref to be $0.35.  The hat would have a value of $115 (regardless of how it is actually done I am using this as an hypothetical example).  Now we add these changes; Bud = 25 keys,  Keys = 5.55 ref and ref hasn't changed in $.  If we keep the hat at 3 buds then her is the result; it is now 75 keys which is 416.5 ref or $145.68.  That change happens for no reason if no one traded for one of those hats during that time.  It receives a trade price increase without any real demand because of faulty logic.  When you recalculate the price to its accepted amount you end up with 2.38 buds which is fine.  No one lost anything.  If the seller receives 2.4 buds today for the hat he paid 2.2 buds for awhile ago, when they were 22 keys, it yields the seller a gain of 23% on their investment not the 9% it appears to yield.

 

The fault actually lies with these currencies all of you have chosen to use.  They are not linked together symmetrically like your country's currency is.  Five $1 bills equals a $5 bill and four $5 bills equals $20 even tho the overall currency is a free floating currency that goes up and down based on the value of the entire economy.  Trading in tf2 is like a slinky instead.

 

Mods should not accept these new price changes based on this logic.  By doing so they allow an artificial price increase.  Buyers have now been conditioned to accept that these price variations are the fault of a bad policy inside bp.tf and that Brad should and will someday change this so they pony up the money thinking that they should therefore reinforcing the faulty logic.

[ERASER BY]

Your logic is flawed. The value of the hat has not been lost at all. It is exactly the same. The currency used to price it has changed in its value. Its is faulty logic to presume that the hat changed with it.

 

If the hat was priced at 3 buds when a bud was 22 keys and keys where 5 ref than that is 330 ref. For this argument we will allow ref to be $0.35. The hat would have a value of $115 (regardless of how it is actually done I am using this as an hypothetical example). Now we add these changes; Bud = 25 keys, Keys = 5.55 ref and ref hasn't changed in $. If we keep the hat at 3 buds then her is the result; it is now 75 keys which is 416.5 ref or $145.68. That change happens for no reason if no one traded for one of those hats during that time. It receives a trade price increase without any real demand because of faulty logic. When you recalculate the price to its accepted amount you end up with 2.38 buds which is fine. No one lost anything. If the seller receives 2.4 buds today for the hat he paid 2.2 buds for awhile ago, when they were 22 keys, it yields the seller a gain of 23% on their investment not the 9% it appears to yield.

 

The fault actually lies with these currencies all of you have chosen to use. They are not linked together symmetrically like your country's currency is. Five $1 bills equals a $5 bill and four $5 bills equals $20 even tho the overall currency is a free floating currency that goes up and down based on the value of the entire economy. Trading in tf2 is like a slinky instead.

 

Mods should not accept these new price changes based on this logic. By doing so they allow an artificial price increase. Buyers have now been conditioned to accept that these price variations are the fault of a bad policy inside bp.tf and that Brad should and will someday change this so they pony up the money thinking that they should therefore reinforcing the faulty logic.

Read carefully what Jester wrote in 4 suggestions of price. It has been researches prices 1-4 months ago and now, the price of the buds in relation to the keys was the same. Then and now buyers are willing to pay the same price in the keys- buds. It does not matter that the price of the bud has increased in $ , 90% of transactions happening in the keys and buds and not for real money. Reducing the cost of unusuals in the buds and the keys for the majority is the main, but not the cost in $ unusuals.

Your argument about that unusual not lost in price , based on the fact that the price of ref-key-bud in $- value which is determined on the site. But the key can be purchased for $ 1.27, for $ 1.8 $ 2.3 $ and for over $ 2.5 (I wrote about this above) the same thing for a bud and ref . In this your mistake .

 

[Liddojunior]

Your logic is flawed.  The value of the hat has not been lost at all.  It is exactly the same.  The currency used to price it has changed in its value.  Its is faulty logic to presume that the hat changed with it.

 

Backpack.tf has wrong cash values on these items. Thats the flaw. 

 

Buds can not be sold for 46$ Yet thats what they are being converted with. 

 

Taking Smoking Team Captain for example. 

 

http://puu.sh/3fRti.jpg - Suggested Value 

 

http://puu.sh/3fRuA.jpg - The $$ It is saved as. 

 

The conversion with the real cost of buds at 40$ makes it 5.4 buds

 

That is no where on current range. 

 

Thats the flaw. 

 

If i sell for the suggested bud value and not the cash value it is saved as then value has been lost, fyi

[Jester]

At that time sellers benifited from bp.tf showing higher prices as the bud dropped and repriced a bunch of unusuals at the higher price point. Now you want to do it even more so while blaming bp.tf and declaring that if Brad doesn't make the change than another site will be built that does. As if buyers will believe in that site more. Arrogance.

It's not arrogance man, it's the truth. That's exactly how backpack.tf got popular. The spreadsheet was found to be suspicious so the community found another source. That source was backpack.tf. There is so much hatred toward bp.tf that if another unusual PC site came out that functioned like BP, but wasn't fundamentally flawed it would immediately be embraced. As it is, it will take a LOT of work to repair the perception against BP.tf in the unusual trading community.

Jestor (Top Gun fan), I looked at the price change history of the first unusual you listed. When Peasant made the change it was during the drop in bud value. It can be seen as it was a dramtic increase over past changes. What you are doing wreaks of artificial price inflation.

 

Explain ths better so that I may trust you. Do not tell me about a lonf history of pricing expierience like some old man. Win me over witj the strength of your argument.

1. Look at all those re-suggestions, the are backed up with current offer proof. A hat that is worth 3 buds is worth 3 buds today, tommorrow, and a week from now.

2. The currency shifts will change the price of an unusual instantly. This is completey bogus. This is what happens:

a)price gets suggested & accepted,

b)value of the unusual is stored in USD,

c)price of keys gets accepted

d)cash price of buds gets adjusted automatically

e)USD price of unusual is divided by the incorrect USD bud price

f)incorrect unusual price is displayed

As I looked over all recent accepted changes I noticed the trend. The list is filled with price increases for all sorts of unusuals. I thought it strange because there has recently been new unusuals with new effects added to the game. Logically, the pool of able unusual buyers would move in that direction and the price of others should expierience a temporary drop. Simply put, there are more types to choose from but not likely that many more buyers. We live in a fad culture after all.

The majority of the experienced unusual traders are avoiding the new hats unless they can get it for really cheap or they are dumping a hat that is hard to sell. Read the trade posts of the experienced traders, nearly all of them say "No robo hats or effects". I agree that there is a larger supply than there was before, but the quality hats hold their value. For the most part all the new hats are viewed as ugly or inferior effects. Read all the robo hat trades, the majority of the hats offered are also robo.

 

That's why hats like Stash, Modest, TC, KE etc. do not change. Ppl bought them for 10 buds, they want at least that much to sell it. More hats really just gives more choices to low-tier traders. The fad is the old effects like energy, burning, scorching, ghosts etc. ppl are not snatching up the new stuff b/c they are scared of losing value on unstable hats/effects.

[Iris★]

I'm sure brad can figure something out to fix this

[Jester]

I'm sure brad can figure something out to fix this

Of course he can, there have been tons of ideas thrown at him to fix it for the last 5-6 months. He just doesn't want to do anything. Otherwise it would be fixed by now.

[F CHARLIE]

Jester, who is going to flock to the website, buyers? Sellers would love a site that shows the price higher on everything. Don't you think buyers would have suspicions about this?

[F CHARLIE]

 

Your argument about that unusual not lost in price , based on the fact that the price of ref-key-bud in $- value which is determined on the site. But the key can be purchased for $ 1.27, for $ 1.8 $ 2.3 $ and for over $ 2.5 (I wrote about this above) the same thing for a bud and ref . In this your mistake .

 

 

You must have missed that I used the price of ref, not keys.  Also, it does not matter to the seller how the keys were bought does it?  Tangent, I would like to know where you think most keys are purchased for cash.  According to stats, there are about 6,000 net keys entering the market every week from the mann co store.