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Bumping up the controversy: Thoughts on feminism?


Milz187

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So reading through this forum we have a thread on Furries & Valentines day. An always controversial topic is feminism.

 

Personally I respect a strong independent woman who is standing up for equality and who is pointing out injustices. One issue I have with the movement is the woman that attach themselves to the cause not for equality but purely as a reason to put down men.

 

A recent example, I had a lunch out with a couple friends and I was buying, one was a male and one was female. When I was ordering their food I told the server that I will have a medium rare steak, he will have fish and chips and she will have a well cooked steak. The server jumped at me and said "she has a name you know, you men have no respect" she completely ignored the fact that I also said he. I pointed that out to her and my female friend defended me and told her you don't have to know my name.

 

What's your thoughts?

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imo, many feminists like to use the title of "feminist" to say whatever the fuk they want to men, and seem like a god damn god to other females. idk man, most i've seen are attention whores 

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I don't have a problem with feminists genuinely concerned about real issues women face.

 

I have a problem with idiots claiming they got PTSD from Twitter and then reporting soldiers, who actually have PTSD, to their commanding officer

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I've never had any first hand experiences with those "feminist" you've described, but I've heard a few things about them.

 

Usually those kinds of people take whatever benefits them the most and molds it into some hideous mentality because they think their social justice beliefs can justify it, and most can get away with it, even be praised for acting like they do. Sort of like how a few "social justice groups" do it over here.

 

My mentality is that if I want to make a point, I can't do it with aggression or I won't be taken seriously

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psst if you don't put threads like these in politics religion and science, they're bound to get banished to the great below

 

Anyways, feminism in its current iteration is super intersectional, which means that there's dozens of different subgroups who consider themselves feminists for countless different reasons. Issues range crazily, from pay equality to abortion rights to rape victim support networks to representation in media.

No matter what way you look at it, the current feminist movement is huge and varies so much from person to person. That's why I always think it's a bit weird that when some people have bad encounters with women, they suddenly decide that literally all of feminism is a sham and terrible.

 

Did some waitress tell you off? Sure, get mad at them. But don't equate their actions to an entire school of thought.

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My mentality is that if I want to make a point, I can't do it with aggression or I won't be taken seriously

 

Very well said, movements need a certain level of aggression, the more you scream the more you will be heard. There's also a fine line between being aggressive for the cause and being aggressive for the sake of it.

 

When I worked in a professional environment something that was brought up a couple times between the men was.. Do we open the door for woman? there's a bit of a case of chivalry Vs feminism. Some woman respect chivalry, where a feminist will rather you not hold the door open. A male can get frowned on in either scenario depending on the type of woman.  

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psst if you don't put threads like these in politics religion and science, they're bound to get banished to the great below

 

Anyways, feminism in its current iteration is super intersectional, which means that there's dozens of different subgroups who consider themselves feminists for countless different reasons. Issues range crazily, from pay equality to abortion rights to rape victim support networks to representation in media.

No matter what way you look at it, the current feminist movement is huge and varies so much from person to person. That's why I always think it's a bit weird that when some people have bad encounters with women, they suddenly decide that literally all of feminism is a sham and terrible.

 

Did some waitress tell you off? Sure, get mad at them. But don't equate their actions to an entire school of thought.

 

Where did i say it was a scam and terrible?, I was clear in saying I respect the motion, I'm very supportive of it. I'm always vocal with people being mistreated, probably half my posts here are of me defending people being mistreated. Now highlighting concerns doesn't discredit the entire subjects, it's simply speaking truths.

 

And it's really not the one case, there's many cases. Personally i don't consider these extremist feminists feminists as my understanding of the end goal is equality and when woman are attaching themselves to it not for equality but to put men down then it goes against the principle, pretty much in the opposite direction of equality. In the extreme cases It's more of a case of revenge over equality. This I have an issue with and it is attached to feminism, even though I don't consider these extremists feminists. So in short, I respect and am supportive of what I consider feminists but am against the extremists (for lack of a better word)

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Very well said, movements need a certain level of aggression, the more you scream the more you will be heard. There's also a fine line between being aggressive for the cause and being aggressive for the sake of it.

 

When I worked in a professional environment something that was brought up a couple times between the men was.. Do we open the door for woman? there's a bit of a case of chivalry Vs feminism. Some woman respect chivalry, where a feminist will rather you not hold the door open. A male can get frowned on in either scenario depending on the type of woman.

 

I hols the door for anyone who is thought behind me. Be it a carry, dog, women men or birch or jack wad. Had a lady get mad any me for hosting the door for her before. I know she works on the same outlets as me, so I told her next time I won't hold it for her. Saw her two weeks later wearing the same jacket, and let the door shut. She started telling me off for not holding the door for her. Really losses me off. So I just walked away cursing under my breath.

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Feminism is great and all, in concept, I guess. Equality and treating people equally, y'know. Don't treat yer wimmen like crap, and all. That's all great...and if someone self-applies the feminist label while advocating for equality for everyone, them I'm behind them 100%.

 

However, if a feminist cries and yells about how women are mistreated while ignoring the ways that men (or minorities, or any other group) are mistreated--or worse yet, says that it's okay to mistreat men--then they don't actually care about equality. They're just full of hate. And it seems to me that a huge percentage of people are first and foremost full of hate, and only secondarily are they feminist, or any other word they may use to describe themselves.

 

Furthermore, in the US (which is where I live, and the rest of the world doesn't matter to me, so I'll only speak of 'murica), feminism is nowhere near as relevant as it once was. 'Murica is so damn capitalist is both structure and cultural attitudes that women are on at least reasonably-equal footing with men in most areas of life, simply because it wouldn't make financial sense to be sexist.

 

As a result of this, it's a bit harder to make sound arguments for why we should care about women more than any other group of people, and more and more feminists are slipping into hateful rhetoric. Because of this, more and more people are starting to associate variations of "feminism" with words like "face-palm", "cringe", and "ffs". Now, it's not the fault of anyone who's a "good" feminist (basically, someone who advocates equality for everyone), but the name and the movement have both splintered and been taken over by hateful rabble-rousers. Even those who aren't hateful, still attract hateful followers who expect the negative, acidic attitudes from anyone labelled feminist.

 

There are plenty of groups of people all around the world who could use someone to advocate for them, and it's great if/when someone does that. But words and labels have huge significance, and "feminist" is mostly negative in today's world. So I'd suggest anyone who actually advocates equality and wants to be taken seriously steer clear of the "feminist" label, as it's quite possibly tarnished beyond repair.

 

But what do I know? I'm just an asshole behind a keyboard with too much time on my hands.

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the modern society would be triggered by saying whiteboard instead of board.

 

oh wait

 

we actually arent allowed to say whiteboard because its politically incorrect.

 

haha whoops

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I don't have a problem with feminists genuinely concerned about real issues women face.

 

Tbh their are barely any "actual" issues which women face when compared to men if anything women have much more benefits, the only real ones would be abuse/rape where as the main arguments which feminists keep bringing up (income inequality, ceos...etc) are simply skewed data.

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The discussion on Feminism: Let's put that here!

 

The discussion on Furries: Nah, that's too serious. To PRS with that one.

 

Logic here boys.

 

Anyway, it is useful to people. Some people are nutjobs, and my god they abuse the term so far that I think they would go and actually commit a male genocide because they think thats how it works. Some are not nutjobs, and do some cool stuff. 

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It's fine if you're a female for equality, but it's the ones that are stupidly ignorant that create the whole problem with feminism. You can acknowledge that there is inequality in certain areas for women-just don't exaggerate it, and pretend as if men are overprivileged and aren't in equal to woman at certain times as well.

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Tbh their are barely any "real" issues which women face when compared to men if anything women have much more benefits, the only real ones would be abuse/rape where as the main arguments which feminists keep bringing up (income inequality, ceos...etc) are simply skewed data.

To be fair, it's a bit different in developed countries than in third-world countries like Australia (shots fired!). If you're a woman, you definitely want to be in the first-world.

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To be fair, it's a bit different in developed countries than in third-world countries like Australia (shots fired!). If you're a woman, you definitely want to be in the first-world.

But taking the topic at hand I'm assuming we are discussing it based off developed countries since we are privileged enough to have food on the table with shelter and can actually complain about things which are non essential to survival.

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In the topic about unpopular opinions I specified how I find dumb feminist in the first world, where equality already exist, and make this matter far more heavy than it is. In fact, ladies who declare themselves feminist often don't even have a personal idea of what it really is, and use it to smack it on your face and feel superior. The same ladies however want chivalry acts that prioritize and give advantage to them. So where's parity?

But what really grinds my gears is the excessively weight given by mass medias for the most stupid facts about feminism. Some whores scream out loud to support feminism and getting attenction by going around topless? Let's support 'em! Who cares, what matters is to get more viewers and money.

Also there are so many campaigns about assistance and phone numbers for rape & Co. even if there is already a good number of them, not counting you should call police, not some damn random company.

 

Fun fact: About astronauts.

Here in Italy there were a total hype for "an Italian girl in space w00t" so that often the other astronauts weren't even mentioned. This pure hype wasn't here for previous space missions or new ISS Italian spacemen.

So many dumb questions by journalists in interviews...

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Like anything else, feminism is easily turned into something extremists by those who use it for their own agenda. The basic movement itself is obviously a good thing though.

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There are basically two types of feminists. Those who protest against men making more money than women and stuff like that. Those people are great. Then there is the other types who basically fight against everything because they think it undermines women even though it doesn't. Those feminists I can't stand

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Those who protest against men making more money than women and stuff like that. Those people are great. 

But the thing is that those people are often uninformed and are "fighting" for a non existent problem the fact is in developed countries their practically none of their claims are factually correct the statistics which they probably got from "feminazis" are skewed. The main claim that women get paid less they ignore the amount of time worked and statistically women on average work less hours than the male counterpart. The female CEO gap is also stupid, the pay of ceos are dictated by a board of directors who evaluate the performance/decisions of the ceo in question hence comparing the differences between the 2 are stupid unless they have a man and a woman making the exact same decisions and taking the exact risks in the exact economy...

 

Fact is in this economy if you could randomly lower a worker's pay purely because they are female every bloody company would be 95% female since you will have 35% less capital expenditure for wages (since according to feminazis women are paid 35% less than men) . The % of female CEOS are less than men is also stupid, on average females take more time off to care for their child which will obviously result in those who dont do chose parent over work obviously wont "rise ranks" to attain better positions. In developed nations if anything women get more rights than men :l

 

Edit:  A good example of the "CEO gap" being BS is the ceo of Auspost gets 5 million every year where as the ceo of USPS only gets half a million, Australia is clearly not as big as america and USPS is practically global.

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IMHO, in this current day & age, in the western world, it's not so much sexism that is the problem but male priviledge (in reference to white priviledge)

 

For example, in a world where the social norm is that the women take care of children, men have the advantage that they are a more reliable workforce (less chance to take a leave, or take a shorter leave, for when they have children)

 

 

The main claim that women get paid less they ignore the amount of time worked and statistically women on average work less hours than the male counterpart.

err ... women get paid less NOT because they work less, but because they end up doing more UNPAID work.

 

Men work on average 52 minutes per day more, yes - at a job, but women on average do more work around the house (18h vs 10h/week).

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