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Help me Dispute a PayPal Chargeback!


TheVirtualEconomist

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Hello there.

 

If you didn't know, I go by Bob, and I have received a chargeback on a PayPal transaction I did. I made a post about it a few days ago before the chargeback occurred. Before you read this, take the time to read my last post. Belive me, Ill know if you didn't read it.

 

You can find it here

 

So here is what I have done. Kind people on this site have linked me to a post of a successful chargeback dispute, and using PayPal's new protection of Virtual goods, I should be able to win this if I make my dispute as perfect as possible.

 

Here is the successful dispute thread

 

And here, is my current dispute to submit to the Dispute system. I've only got one shot, so I gotta make this count. 

 

This is where you come in. I need people to read over my dispute, and give me suggestions. Idc if they are criticisms or complements, feedbacks feedback. Also, since the transaction was done in 4 payments, do I need to split this up into four smaller disputes? I feel like I read somewhere that you can only dispute one payment at a time, not all at once.

 

Thanks!

 

Bob

 

 

 

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It is way to long, 8 pages to dispute...

 

- Should be like 2-3 sentences explaining transaction (with evidence)

- A sentence to explain what was traded/the agreed amount via paypal (with evidence)

- Supporting evidence to linking the paid amount from scammers account to the steam account.

- Rest of evidence labeled/cited for easier reference/understanding of how the transaction occurred.

 

It should be no longer than half a page tbh...

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make it shorter

 

evidence only, skip the backstory crap

Specifically what? If your refuring to me introducting steam trading, I feel like it is very crucial, as the reader is likely unfamiliar with Steam trading in general.

 

It is way to long, 8 pages to dispute...

 

- Should be like 2-3 sentences explaining transaction (with evidence)

- A sentence to explain what was traded/the agreed amount via paypal (with evidence)

- Supporting evidence to linking the paid amount from scammers account to the steam account.

- Rest of evidence labeled/cited for easier reference/understanding of how the transaction occurred.

 

It should be no longer than half a page tbh...

I understand your view completely. However, the problem is that the buyer attempted to skew the evidence. If I don't explicitly show what occurred at each step, It could be very likely that the reader sees the first inconsistency and dismisses the dispute.

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I understand your view completely. However, the problem is that the buyer attempted to skew the evidence. If I don't explicitly show what occurred at each step, It could be very likely that the reader sees the first inconsistency and dismisses the dispute.

 

Do you anyone will actually go though in depth 8 pages of text to dig out the information they actually need?

 

Either have a summary at the top and a "indepth" version later or a shorten version because you're not exactly doing yourself a favour by making things way to convoluted.

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First of all it's too lengthy just like everyone said and there are a lot of irrelevant information. Paypal does not care what game you play and they don't want links to steamcommunity, tf2outpost, etc. 

 

Just simply tell them that you sold virtual items for cash through Paypal and that the person who you sold the items to, has filled 4 false charge-back disputes against you. Show the relevant evidence here such as the chat log between you and the scammer, you sending him the keys and him sending you the money after you specify the amount and your paypal address in chat. 

 

Paypal will then check his account and view what the charge-backs are for. If the scammer had used a fake IP address and filed a "Unauthorized access" report to Paypal, the chances of you winning is really low considering Paypal does not cover non-physical goods. ( Correct me if I'm wrong here, you mentioned Paypal's new virtual goods protection? I can't find such policy on their page )

 

Also considering how images can be easily photoshopped, try to provide some actual real time proof such as your keys going into his backpack account and if there is anyone else who has been scammed by this person, ask them for their help. Paypal can look into this and realize that this user has filed multiple charge-back disputes, etc. 

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seriously make it less long. also what's the new virtual goods protection thing? thought they completely disavowed that.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/brc/buyer-protection

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/archive-policies-full

 

First of all it's too lengthy just like everyone said and there are a lot of irrelevant information. Paypal does not care what game you play and they don't want links to steamcommunity, tf2outpost, etc. 

 

Just simply tell them that you sold virtual items for cash through Paypal and that the person who you sold the items to, has filled 4 false charge-back disputes against you. Show the relevant evidence here such as the chat log between you and the scammer, you sending him the keys and him sending you the money after you specify the amount and your paypal address in chat. 

 

Paypal will then check his account and view what the charge-backs are for. If the scammer had used a fake IP address and filed a "Unauthorized access" report to Paypal, the chances of you winning is really low considering Paypal does not cover non-physical goods. ( Correct me if I'm wrong here, you mentioned Paypal's new virtual goods protection? I can't find such policy on their page )

 

Also considering how images can be easily photoshopped, try to provide some actual real time proof such as your keys going into his backpack account and if there is anyone else who has been scammed by this person, ask them for their help. Paypal can look into this and realize that this user has filed multiple charge-back disputes, etc. 

Thanks for the information, It helps alot.

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Also, I really need this question answered. 

 

Since the transaction was done in 4 payments, do I need to split this up into four smaller disputes? I feel like I read somewhere that you can only dispute one payment at a time, not all at once.

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 Before you read this, take the time to read my last post. Belive me, Ill know if you didn't read it.

 

 

 

I think you might get more responses in this thread if you don't expect people to dig through pages and pages of threads and dispute drafts.  How many people here do you think actually have the spare time to go through all of this?  In my opinion, you're pretty lucky to have gotten any responses here at all, especially with the line "Believe me, I'll know if you didn't".   This isn't a trade, nobody here has anything to gain from helping you in this pursuit.  Respect people's time and be grateful for the help that you're receiving.  You're not paying anyone here, nobody owes you their precious time.  

 

If I come off as harsh, it's because of your comment in the other thread when you complained that you can't find any buyers for your high prices to get rid of the rest of your keys.  This shows me that you haven't actually learned anything.  The reason why you're in this mess is simple:  greed.  You wanted the highest price possible for your keys ($1.90) and ended up selling 200 keys to a scammer.  Instead of realizing that when you're selling high quantities like that, you should just go to a reputable buyer (like Pain for example) and sell at a reduced rate, you still want to sell for the highest price possible.  Nobody with any amount of rep buys keys in those quantities at the "normal" price of 1.85, let alone at 1.90.  Until you learn that, there's a high chance of this situation reoccurring.  

 

As for your dispute:  It's too long.  Nobody wants to read that and more importantly, people lose attention after 2 pages which isn't in your favour,.  First, provide an outline of what happened.  Include the fact that TF2 keys are generally sold for less then 2 dollars each, you may need to provide screenshots of threads on this forum to prove that.   This should only be a couple of paragraphs.   In the next paragraph, outline the chat logs.  Keep it simple.  The guy wanted to buy keys and agreed to your price and stated that he will pay in paypal and not charge back.  Do not mention that he then sent you more money without having an agreement first, that will go against your case.   Do however provide a screenshot of the whole conversation. Next, state that you went through with the trade and provide proof that you sent the keys.  I feel this may be the most critical part.  Provide a screenshot of the trade from your trade history, highlight the account names in the trade and provide another screenshot of his account, proving that the keys actually went to him.    Next, you need to provide the details of your paypal account.  Write when you received the cash (screenshot, although they obviously have access to this information) and when the charge back occurred (again, screenshot).   That's pretty much all you can do.....good luck. 

 

EDIT: seeing how the chargebacks were all made on the same date by the same person, I don't think you need to file 4 separate disputes.  

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if the payment was sent as friends and family then i don't think it will be covered by paypal's protection at all since you didn't use the goods and services option which would qualify you as a 'seller' in their policy. also the thing you linked is their buyer protection policy which allows buyers to chargeback/reverse payments for intangible goods. this does not mean that as a seller you are covered in their seller protection for intangible goods as it says here

 

"Proof of Delivery

To be eligible for Seller Protection, we require two types of evidence for protection eligibility. A digital or physical proof that the item was sent by the seller, and proof that the item was delivered by the delivery company."

 

"Items Not Covered

Items that don't match your description, intangible items like services or digital goods, items that violate our policies or eBay's policies, and items you sell or deliver in person. None of these items are covered."

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Paypal will then check his account and view what the charge-backs are for. If the scammer had used a fake IP address and filed a "Unauthorized access" report to Paypal, the chances of you winning is really low considering Paypal does not cover non-physical goods. ( Correct me if I'm wrong here, you mentioned Paypal's new virtual goods protection? I can't find such policy on their page )

With an update to their policies paypal now recognises the sale of virtual goods,  they removed a statement which basically said paypal is not responsible nor recognizes the sale of virtual good this was a couple of months back.

 

if the payment was sent as friends and family then i don't think it will be covered by paypal's protection at all since you didn't use the goods and services option which would qualify you as a 'seller' in their policy. also the thing you linked is their buyer protection policy which allows buyers to chargeback/reverse payments for intangible goods. this does not mean that as a seller you are covered in their seller protection for intangible goods as it says here

Any payment is covered by their policy, including if they send via family/friends a chargeback can be done in multiple ways it isnt exclusively paypal and can also be done via their credit card company claiming someone stole their card. If someone buys anything they have the right to dispute the payment claiming they dont recognise the payment and charge back, you as a seller always have the right to dispute the claim or else ebay/paypal will be a complete mess.

 

If he has a well documented evidence of him selling his keys for an agreed amount he can easily win the dispute regardless of how the money was sent, that is if he listens to the advice given in this thread to talk specifically about the transaction and to not have a dispute which is essentially a large convoluted walls and walls of irrelevant text.

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I think you might get more responses in this thread if you don't expect people to dig through pages and pages of threads and dispute drafts.  How many people here do you think actually have the spare time to go through all of this?  In my opinion, you're pretty lucky to have gotten any responses here at all, especially with the line "Believe me, I'll know if you didn't".   This isn't a trade, nobody here has anything to gain from helping you in this pursuit.  Respect people's time and be grateful for the help that you're receiving.  You're not paying anyone here, nobody owes you their precious time.  

 

If I come off as harsh, it's because of your comment in the other thread when you complained that you can't find any buyers for your high prices to get rid of the rest of your keys.  This shows me that you haven't actually learned anything.  The reason why you're in this mess is simple:  greed.  You wanted the highest price possible for your keys ($1.90) and ended up selling 200 keys to a scammer.  Instead of realizing that when you're selling high quantities like that, you should just go to a reputable buyer (like Pain for example) and sell at a reduced rate, you still want to sell for the highest price possible.  Nobody with any amount of rep buys keys in those quantities at the "normal" price of 1.85, let alone at 1.90.  Until you learn that, there's a high chance of this situation reoccurring.  

 

As for your dispute:  It's too long.  Nobody wants to read that and more importantly, people lose attention after 2 pages which isn't in your favour,.  First, provide an outline of what happened.  Include the fact that TF2 keys are generally sold for less then 2 dollars each, you may need to provide screenshots of threads on this forum to prove that.   This should only be a couple of paragraphs.   In the next paragraph, outline the chat logs.  Keep it simple.  The guy wanted to buy keys and agreed to your price and stated that he will pay in paypal and not charge back.  Do not mention that he then sent you more money without having an agreement first, that will go against your case.   Do however provide a screenshot of the whole conversation. Next, state that you went through with the trade and provide proof that you sent the keys.  I feel this may be the most critical part.  Provide a screenshot of the trade from your trade history, highlight the account names in the trade and provide another screenshot of his account, proving that the keys actually went to him.    Next, you need to provide the details of your paypal account.  Write when you received the cash (screenshot, although they obviously have access to this information) and when the charge back occurred (again, screenshot).   That's pretty much all you can do.....good luck. 

 

EDIT: seeing how the chargebacks were all made on the same date by the same person, I don't think you need to file 4 separate disputes.  

 

I am sorry if that first line came across harshly, that was intended to only to prevent people from telling me that I was an idiot and telling me how moronic I was for even considering to trade with this"obvious scammer." I know that kind of behavior is prevelent on these fourms, and I am really trying my best to stay neutral.

 

Honestly I dont blame you one bit for your what you said. Maybe it is unreasonable to be asking for help like this, as it does take alot more effort than replying to an average thread. If I havent made it clear already I am so grateful for people like you taking the time to respond to my threads like this for nothing in return.

 

I have already agreed 100% to the fact that I shouldnt have been greedy, and I made a huge mistake and I have admitted this countless times. I respect your opinion, but I dont think that It needs to be kept being brought up, it makes me want to slam my head into the wall for being so stupid, if you know what I mean.

 

Lastly, thank you so much for your advice on my dispute. It will help so much. Thank you.

With an update to their policies paypal now recognises the sale of virtual goods,  they removed a statement which basically said paypal is not responsible nor recognizes the sale of virtual good this was a couple of months back.

 

Any payment is covered by their policy, including if they send via family/friends a chargeback can be done in multiple ways it isnt exclusively paypal and can also be done via their credit card company claiming someone stole their card. If someone buys anything they have the right to dispute the payment claiming they dont recognise the payment and charge back, you as a seller always have the right to dispute the claim or else ebay/paypal will be a complete mess.

 

If he has a well documented evidence of him selling his keys for an agreed amount he can easily win the dispute regardless of how the money was sent, that is if he listens to the advice given in this thread to talk specifically about the transaction and to not have a dispute which is essentially a large convoluted walls and walls of irrelevant text.

 

This was what I was thinking, thanks for the info, and the optimism!

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Just talked to another user who was scammed by the same person.

 

here is the chat conversation.

 

They used two different accounts to do the payment, so I am assuming this would hurt my case. However, using the fact that the Steam User has scammed other people would be helpful, right?

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Here is my Final Draft of my dispute. I am not planning on making any major changes to this. It is shorter now, more organized and sticks more closly to the evidence. I need a few last suggestions before I submit it.

 

You can find it here 

 

Thanks for your help everyone!

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Here is my Final Draft of my dispute. I am not planning on making any major changes to this. It is shorter now, more organized and sticks more closly to the evidence. I need a few last suggestions before I submit it.

 

You can find it here 

 

Thanks for your help everyone!

The beginning part is not needed with all that general info shit, all paypal should see is you both agreeing on a price for an item which you can prove he received and can link it to a specific transaction.
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