Trading Liability (User is Marked on Outpost, but not on SR)

[ℕ Hilbert-WARing Theorem™]

This is a relatively simply, but potentially non-straightforward question.

 

Choosing to preserve anonymity, I will use variables. If this matter is not sufficiently resolved through this principle of anonymity, I shall use profiles.

 

Imagine that a trader, denoted A, was banned on Outpost and backpack.tf for being a scammer alt.

Now, impose the condition that A claims this accusation is false.

A is interested in the items of another trader, B.

 

Since A is not marked on Steamrep, with no pending reports, he is technically clean, as far as infractions which would warrant a ban through the moderation system are concerned.

 

Would there be any negative implications if B agreed to trade with user A?

[t0night]

This is a relatively simply, but potentially non-straightforward question.

 

Choosing to preserve anonymity, I will use variables. If this matter is not sufficiently resolved through this principle of anonymity, I shall use profiles.

 

Imagine that a trader, denoted A, was banned on Outpost and backpack.tf for being a scammer alt.

Now, impose the condition that A claims this accusation is false.

A is interested in the items of another trader, B.

 

Since A is not marked on Steamrep, with no pending reports, he is technically clean, as far as infractions which would warrant a ban through the moderation system are concerned.

 

Would there be any negative implications if B agreed to trade with user A?

you'd get a ban from backpack.tf and outpost for trading a scammer alt, SR is not the ultimate arbiter of what is obviously an alt in terms of bans on other sites. if they have marked someone as an alt it is because there is an IP match, usually.

[ℕ Hilbert-WARing Theorem™]

you'd get a ban from backpack.tf and outpost for trading a scammer alt, SR is not the ultimate arbiter of what is obviously an alt in terms of bans on other sites. if they have marked someone as an alt it is because there is an IP match, usually.

 

Is the method of IP-matching virtually universal? The trader (A) is claiming that the accusation of being a scammer alt was false. I am not completely sure of this, there is evidence pointing to the contrary. If the ban is issued through an IP-match, then there are very strong grounds to believe that the ban was justified, in the sense that the user is in fact a scammer alt. Otherwise, there is room for error and misunderstanding, in which such an accusation could be falsely imposed.

[Genzarata]

Is the method of IP-matching virtually universal? The trader (A) is claiming that the accusation of being a scammer alt was false. I am not completely sure of this, there is evidence pointing to the contrary. If the ban is issued through an IP-match, then there are very strong grounds to believe that the ban was justified, in the sense that the user is in fact a scammer alt. Otherwise, there is room for error and misunderstanding, in which such an accusation could be falsely imposed.

When it comes to trading: if in doubt - don't. I'm sure one good deal is not worth the loss of your reputation and ability to use the two biggest trading sites.

[Hatrix]

See, my problem with just marking every single account as an alt if one person scams based on IP is that more than one person in a household can be using Steam and can be active in the same game. Hell, two years ago I was living with my parents and my younger brother, my younger brother uses Steam and plays TF2 as well. It's not fair to mark him if I get caught scamming, and it's not fair to mark me if he gets caught scamming.

[ℕ Hilbert-WARing Theorem™]

See, my problem with just marking every single account as an alt if one person scams based on IP is that more than one person in a household can be using Steam and can be active in the same game. Hell, two years ago I was living with my parents and my younger brother, my younger brother uses Steam and plays TF2 as well. It's not fair to mark him if I get caught scamming, and it's not fair to mark me if he gets caught scamming.

 

Thank you for the sensible advice. I was mostly asking because I was unsure about the spread of liability. He claimed that the accusation was false, which is why he was not marked on Steamrep. He also told me that some admins were on his side, although I was highly skeptical.

 

I have compelling evidence to believe that he is in fact a scammer alt. These reasons are clear:

i) Scammer alts are determined through IP-matching, which is hard to avoid and very accurate**

ii) Several Unusuals in his inventory were transferred from another alt of the same scammer to his account, some of which were transferred back and forth more than once*

iii) His account is suspicious; new account, low level, few items, non-developmental backpack wealth (i.e. no items of value except for high-tier Unusuals)

iv) His writing style is apparently very similar to that of the scammer, from what I was told; this is very suggestive

 

*He claims that he gave his friend (in real-life) the items to "play with". However, that friend then became marked on Steamrep, causing him to be flagged as a scammer alt by consequence. Frankly, I don't think I ought to believe it.

**Nonetheless, I do have to give some credit for the mild plausibility of his explanation. If his friend was marked and they were using the same network, since they are friends in real-life, it is possible to mistakenly link his account to the account of a scammer or scammer alt. Still seems unlikely to be true, since both accounts are so new. They are very possibly scammer alts which were used to transfer items.

[t0night]

Thank you for the sensible advice. I was mostly asking because I was unsure about the spread of liability. He claimed that the accusation was false, which is why he was not marked on Steamrep. He also told me that some admins were on his side, although I was highly skeptical.

 

I have compelling evidence to believe that he is in fact a scammer alt. These reasons are clear:

i) Scammer alts are determined through IP-matching, which is hard to avoid and very accurate**

ii) Several Unusuals in his inventory were transferred from another alt of the same scammer to his account, some of which were transferred back and forth more than once*

iii) His account is suspicious; new account, low level, few items, non-developmental backpack wealth (i.e. no items of value except for high-tier Unusuals)

iv) His writing style is apparently very similar to that of the scammer, from what I was told; this is very suggestive

 

*He claims that he gave his friend (in real-life) the items to "play with". However, that friend then became marked on Steamrep, causing him to be flagged as a scammer alt by consequence. Frankly, I don't think I ought to believe it.

**Nonetheless, I do have to give some credit for the mild plausibility of his explanation. If his friend was marked and they were using the same network, since they are friends in real-life, it is possible to mistakenly link his account to the account of a scammer or scammer alt. Still seems unlikely to be true, since both accounts are so new. They are very possibly scammer alts which were used to transfer items.

whether or not he's an alt, you know he's trading items owned by a scammer. it's incredibly simple: when someone is banned for being an alt, you've had the work done for you.

 

if he's not an alt, his appeal will be accepted when he proves it.

 

 

since you're even asking this question, i think you need to be significantly more careful who you trade with.

[polar]

If he's banned for being a scammer alt, you cannot trade with him. If he's banned for trading with a scammer and is not marked on SR, it should be okay to trade with him.

 

Our rules are laid out explicitly: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/29027-guide-for-background-checks/

[ℕ Hilbert-WARing Theorem™]

If he's banned for being a scammer alt, you cannot trade with him. If he's banned for trading with a scammer and is not marked on SR, it should be okay to trade with him.

 

That was my motivation for creating this discussion, to shed light on the matter at hand. He claims that he was falsely accused of being a scammer alt and banned according to a misunderstanding. The million-dollar question is whether he is truly banned due to being an alt of aforementioned scammer or merely mislabeled as a scammer alt due to a poor choice of trading. Currently, I would be willing to believe that he is banned as a scammer alt and there is compelling evidence for that, as written in my earlier posts (most notably the act of seemingly laundering dirty Unusuals). Nonetheless, he is trying to convince me otherwise.

[E-Arkham]

If he's banned for being a scammer alt, you cannot trade with him. If he's banned for trading with a scammer and is not marked on SR, it should be okay to trade with him.

 

Our rules are laid out explicitly: http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/29027-guide-for-background-checks/

Okay, so what's going on with that cursed Burning Team Captain then? That's a long string of people being banned for merely touching the thing, isn't it?

 

Not accusing or anything, just asking because I don't understand what's going on in that situation.

[polar]

Okay, so what's going on with that cursed Burning Team Captain then? That's a long string of people being banned for merely touching the thing, isn't it?

 

Not accusing or anything, just asking because I don't understand what's going on in that situation.

 

All of them were marked on SR pretty much the same day. The only trade that happened so quickly that the person was not marked at the time I believe was the one with Rock into Mordor. He wasn't banned.

[Hatrix]

All of them were marked on SR pretty much the same day. The only trade that happened so quickly that the person was not marked at the time I believe was the one with Rock into Mordor. He wasn't banned.

God forbid SR gets on the huge backlogs they actually have. :^)