Is the Loch-n-Load still overpowered?

[angry_worms]

A lot of people seem to cry over the loch-n-load whenever it gets changed such as when it got "nerfed" in the smissmas update. However in my opinion, the loch-n-load is still currently broken.

 

The loch-n-load does the same damage as the stock grenade launcher and it's easier to hit. The 1 less clip size does not do justice to the loch because the projectile speed is too good for explosive weapons. The projectile speed is so important on the loch-n-load because it allows it to reach a range where the stock grenade launcher cannot. Pipes don't have damage falloff so the loch-n-load can do 100 damage from a very far distance. The projectile speed also makes the pipes significantly harder to dodge.

 

If you look at the stats of the loch-n-load and the liberty launcher before the nerf, you can see that they're pretty similar. The liberty launcher was probably the most broken weapons and it got nerfed very significantly. I don't understand why valve can't see that the loch-n-load isn't overpowered but the liberty launcher was. In fact, the loch needs more changes than the liberty launcher because projectile speed doesn't affect the range of rockets since they have an infinite range, as well rockets have damage falloff while pipes don't, so a rocket could do 40 damage at long range but a pipe can do 100 damage consistently at the same range.

 

Tl;dr: The loch-n-load is overpowered because it has the ability to do 100 damage at long range while being easier to hit with. 

 

What are your opinions on the loch-n-load and how could you change it?

 

[CecilyLovesYou<3™]

To hell with that. Yes it's easier to hit, but in terms of DPS stock still has the upper hand over it due to the reduced clip size. The damage bonus damage against buildings is almost useless because let's face it, since when did you land direct hits on buildings to kill it with a nade launcher? You don't. You spam it, and let the grenades explode, which will still do more damage than the loch n load alone.

 

So in conclusion, the loch n load is still too underpowered as there are too many downsides that come along with the projectile speed increase, and the damage against buildings bonus, which is honestly redundant.

 

EDIT: The way you describe the current loch n load is like using it as a medium-long range "sniper rifle". But tbh, who even does that? The demo's ssupposed to be a master at AoE damage, not being a "sniper that does AoE damage".

[Apo]

it's a decent side grade now

[Jacobmeister]

Okay, let's see what's wrong here.

"the projectile speed is too good for explosive weapons"

The Direct Hit has a +70% projectile speed. The Loch has a +25% speed.

 

"The projectile speed is so important on the loch-n-load because it allows it to reach a range where the stock grenade launcher cannot."

Yes and no - if you're going to be aiming THAT far away, it's basically a pot-shot, gl hitting with it.

 

"The loch-n-load is overpowered because it has the ability to do 100 damage at long range while being easier to hit with."

The Grenade Launcher can also do 100 damage at medium-long range while having an extra grenade.

 

The main reason why the Loch hasn't been as heavily nerfed as The Liberty Launcher for example, is simply because it's harder to use. It's literally point and shoot for rockets, for grenades you have to be aiming up too. Loch isn't broken, it's good where it is now.

[♠Derpeh♤]

Loch is horrible now you're giving up spam, the ability to hold off chokes and ammo capacity for 25% speed...

 

You shouldn't be playing demo if all your are trying to do is to go for the long range hail mary tbh

 

Have you actually tried using it? You need to directly pop any class twice to kill that takes skill

[Discovery]

the loch-n-load is still currently broken.

 

That's when I stopped reading.

[Mole]

"rockets have infitir range"

if you find a map that is infitely big, yes

[Normies]

no valve nered it duh

[angry_worms]

To hell with that. Yes it's easier to hit, but in terms of DPS stock still has the upper hand over it due to the reduced clip size. The damage bonus damage against buildings is almost useless because let's face it, since when did you land direct hits on buildings to kill it with a nade launcher? You don't. You spam it, and let the grenades explode, which will still do more damage than the loch n load alone.

 

So in conclusion, the loch n load is still too underpowered as there are too many downsides that come along with the projectile speed increase, and the damage against buildings bonus, which is honestly redundant.

 

EDIT: The way you describe the current loch n load is like using it as a medium-long range "sniper rifle". But tbh, who even does that? The demo's ssupposed to be a master at AoE damage, not being a "sniper that does AoE damage".

I don't think I have ever used the rollers of the grenade launcher to destroy buildings because an engineer can repair their buildings faster than the damage of the rollers, the stickybomb launcher is much more reliable. It's hard to see the effectiveness of the loch when you only compare it with the demo's primaries... or should I say secondaries. When a demo wants to do damage from far range, he'll use its stickybomb launcher. If he's being attack from close range, he can use the stickybomb  launcher. The stickybomb launcher is pretty much the demo's primary. What the loch can do but the stock can't, is spam from a far range. It's too easy to just spam with the loch at a choke point and get free damage, thus making the loch a better secondary than the grenade launcher. I don't think a demo would ever use the grenade launcher full time if they didn't have the stickies.

 

Okay, let's see what's wrong here.

"the projectile speed is too good for explosive weapons"

The Direct Hit has a +70% projectile speed. The Loch has a +25% speed.

 

"The projectile speed is so important on the loch-n-load because it allows it to reach a range where the stock grenade launcher cannot."

Yes and no - if you're going to be aiming THAT far away, it's basically a pot-shot, gl hitting with it.

 

"The loch-n-load is overpowered because it has the ability to do 100 damage at long range while being easier to hit with."

The Grenade Launcher can also do 100 damage at medium-long range while having an extra grenade.

 

The main reason why the Loch hasn't been as heavily nerfed as The Liberty Launcher for example, is simply because it's harder to use. It's literally point and shoot for rockets, for grenades you have to be aiming up too. Loch isn't broken, it's good where it is now.

I never said anything about the direct hit, but the reason why the direct hit is balanced is because a soldier with the rocket launcher can just shoot the floor for safe damage. You'll be hitting directs anyways with the loch and the stock. What would you do with rollers? Shoot the floor and hope that they mindlessly walk into it? It is not hard to spam from a safe distance with the loch at a choke point and get hits. Having an extra grenade isn't too special because it doesn't take more than 3 pipes to kill a non over-healed class. And it's not like you only have 3 pipes, you can always reload since you're pretty much spamming this weapon from a safe distance. And if you were fighting from close distance, I'm sure the enemy would kill you before you can shoot your forth grenade. 

 

Loch is horrible now you're giving up spam, the ability to hold off chokes and ammo capacity for 25% speed...

 

You shouldn't be playing demo if all your are trying to do is to go for the long range hail mary tbh

 

Have you actually tried using it? You need to directly pop any class twice to kill that takes skill

Stickies are much better to hold off chokes, it's free damage to just spam loch grenades from far range. For the part about the "long range hail mary kill" demoman should be in the back because they are very vulnerable to close range attacks. Both weapons do the same damage but one is easier to hit, thus it doesn't take skill. I would say the 1 less ammo capacity is not a good trade for the ease of pipes because you don't need more than 3 pipes to kill a non-overhealed class. And I have used it, scouts were much easier to hit and I was able to get away with shots that I could not with the stock.

That's when I stopped reading.

When the loch was changed in the smissmas update everyone complained it being nerfed. About a month later, almost all demoman would use the loch over the grenade launcher.

 

"rockets have infitir range"

if you find a map that is infitely big, yes

The point is that the projectile speed of rockets doesn't affect their range unlike pipes. 

[Discovery]

Hard to imagine "Demoman" and "long range" in one sentence that makes sense.

 

When the loch was changed in the smissmas update everyone complained it being nerfed. About a month later, almost all demoman would use the loch over the grenade launcher.

 

Didn't realize a lot of people thought it was a nerf. Seemed like a buff to me.

• Removed +25% self-damage penalty.
• Added -25% radius penalty.
• Changed clipsize penalty to -25% (3 grenades per clip) from -50% (2 grenades per clip).

 

Other than that, the LnL is now basically a..

decent side grade now

 

 

.

[RRB]

The stock may be better even before the nerf but the LnL is still an option to use against sentry nests in certain maps.

[Gren]

The damage bonus damage against buildings is almost useless because let's face it, since when did you land direct hits on buildings to kill it with a nade launcher? 

 

 

Uh, like all the time?  It's a stationary target, if you can't even hit that with a direct hit, you shouldn't be playing demo at all.  

[Kalkaria]

It's not overpowered, but is still annoying as fuck.

 

In short-mid range, you can't really dodge it. And all you need is 3 shots to kill, anyways.

[Scott Bakula]

I don't think I have ever used the rollers of the grenade launcher to destroy buildings because an engineer can repair their buildings faster than the damage of the rollers

 

 

You're forgetting that those rollers are also damaging the engineers at the same time, and once you kill the engie, the sentry tends to be easy pickings. Me, I make use of rollers all the time on sentries that I can't get a good line of sight on without a decoy/uber. Bounce the grenades off of the walls and have them land comfortably at the sentry's feet without having to get into the line of fire.

[Gren]

A lot of people seem to cry over the loch-n-load whenever it gets changed such as when it got "nerfed" in the smissmas update. However in my opinion, the loch-n-load is still currently broken.

 

The loch-n-load does the same damage as the stock grenade launcher and it's easier to hit. The 1 less clip size does not do justice to the loch because the projectile speed is too good for explosive weapons. The projectile speed is so important on the loch-n-load because it allows it to reach a range where the stock grenade launcher cannot. Pipes don't have damage falloff so the loch-n-load can do 100 damage from a very far distance. The projectile speed also makes the pipes significantly harder to dodge.

 

If you look at the stats of the loch-n-load and the liberty launcher before the nerf, you can see that they're pretty similar. The liberty launcher was probably the most broken weapons and it got nerfed very significantly. I don't understand why valve can't see that the loch-n-load isn't overpowered but the liberty launcher was. In fact, the loch needs more changes than the liberty launcher because projectile speed doesn't affect the range of rockets since they have an infinite range, as well rockets have damage falloff while pipes don't, so a rocket could do 40 damage at long range but a pipe can do 100 damage consistently at the same range.

 

Tl;dr: The loch-n-load is overpowered because it has the ability to do 100 damage at long range while being easier to hit with. 

 

What are your opinions on the loch-n-load and how could you change it?

 

 

This is actually a good analysis and I don't understand why everyone's hating on it.  

 

One thing you forgot to mention and has people confused is that the increased projectile speed results in easier aim, not only because the grenade simply flies faster, but also because you don't have to aim up so much.  When you want to hit a target even at medium range, you have to aim the grenade launcher up quite a bit.  With the Loch however, you can aim just slightly above the target (is at all, in most situations you can aim directly at the target and you'll still hit their feet).  

 

Then there's the fact that the Loch already needed 2 hits to kill any fully healed target.  This new nerf only really affects game play against the heavier classes.  

 

The damage bonus against buildings also is significant, contrary to what some here are saying.  The Loch was already an excellent choice to take out nests and now (especially with some of the engie nerfs) an ubered Loch in the hands of someone who can hit a stationary target (so pretty much everybody I would hope) is pretty much unstopable.  

 

I disagree though, I don't think it's broken.  It's fine, leave it be.  

[Gren]

You're forgetting that those rollers are also damaging the engineers at the same time, and once you kill the engie, the sentry tends to be easy pickings. Me, I make use of rollers all the time on sentries that I can't get a good line of sight on without a decoy/uber. Bounce the grenades off of the walls and have them land comfortably at the sentry's feet without having to get into the line of fire.

 

Most of the time though you'll just take out the engie and damage his gear.  4 rollers aren't going to take out a nest and an engie.  This is also assuming that there is a wall directly behind the nest to stop the nades from simply rolling out of range.  If you can hit it directly, why wouldn't you?  Again, it's a stationary target, if you can't hit that, go medic.  

[77777777777777777777777777]

Annoying, but no longer over-powered.

[Temido2222]

At this rate, we might as well remove the Loch.

[The Muffin Nailer]

At this rate, we might as well remove the Loch.

 

Gee, you seem like you don't know about the existence of OTHER Demo weapons, do ya?

Guess you can't rely on that Loch Targe Caber combo you saw on YouTube anymore....