Milz187 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm reading and hearing a lot about SteamRep being slow in hitting the hammer and finalizing appeals. They currently have a 2 - 3 year backlog of reports, which means legit scammers are being left unattended and able to plot out their next attempt for a long time. The main reasoning I'm hearing from SteamRep for this long time frame is that a lot of time and effort goes into completing a report, what I'm wondering is why wasn't this the case 4 or so years back when it seems to be a smooth process? Did staff drop off? Did they take up to much work load? Has the protocol from completing a ban changed? Do SteamRep officials have a weekly criteria on how many cases they need to action? I see a lot of part time reps, If there's no real reward and no real pressure on them to perform what is going to drive them into completing tedious tasks? For SteamRep to be a smooth operation I think the the following needs to be in place. (let me know if you think something needs to be added) - A clear Black or White protocol (greyness has lead to reports being complicated thus the report holdup) - Incentive for reporter to action tasks quicker or allow the community input - Transparency with the community - Consistent review A clear protocol on what constitutes someone as Ban worthy, I've seen many inconsistent cases and read in reports things such as this is a tricky one, when there are tricky ones what this ultimately means is things are going to be inconsistent and people committing the same offense could be judged differently. Once their is a clear protocol then things should be much smoother. Things like this aren't a clear protocol and should be avoided, things shouldn't be left the an admins discretion as two people could commit the same crime yet be punished differently. ​ Why am I marked as a CAUTION for my reputation?These marks are given for shady or fraudulent trading practices where evidence or circumstances do not warrant a full SCAMMER tag. These are provided at administrator discretion to help protect community traders from risk. Note that a cautionary reputation may be temporarily applied as a notice to speak with admins as part of an investigation or as a first offense warning. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What are the cases in which people can get banned for: PayPal Scam, Trade Scam, Sharking???, Trading With Scammers Multiple Times, Spy Crab Runner??? Faking C.O's??? What else? Now lets break these down and put a protocol under each, I'm sure if we write down a clear protocol for each then things should work much smoother. If someone ones know of a case where you can't put in a clear protocol please note it. As an example of a protocol: (help me write others up) PayPal Scam: (Chargeback or Non Payment): With evidence (Chat Log) (Trade History Screenshot) the scammer will receive a permanent scammer tag, the marked user has a right to appeal but for it to be successful they need to prove that the funds were in fact sent on the day of the trade or that they attempted to send item back on the same day. - Incentive for reporter to action tasks quicker or allow the community input By the sounds of it completing reports sounds tedious, in the current system if you've completed 50 in a week do you get any reward over someone that has completed 5? I'm not sure what the exact solution is to get reviewers working harder but a simple idea could be to introduce a tip service, who ever actions a certain case has a tip bot aligned to the case, from here who ever opened the case or who ever else can choose to tip the reviewer for a good job in helping keep the community safe. Let me hear other ideas. Otherwise if the process is clear cut you could use the backing of the community to help raise awareness on which cases should be completed quicker. - Transparency with the community At the moment the rules only say so much, there's no public protocol that I can see on how that manage the cases. What I think a major issue is that you can be banned from 15 or so different communities and to have your Steam Tag appeal you need to clear it up with the community that had listed you. Do they all have the same rules? Do some judge harder than others? Are some more lenient? One again as you can see two people could commit the same offenses yet be punished differently. Ideally the same set of protocols should be written up and shared amongst all communities. - Consistent review As the community and trade practices change things will need to be consistently looked at, as an example if a process was drawn up 5 years ago they wouldn't have considered these phishing spam bots, consistent review ensures that things like this don't get missed and there's a protocol to action them. I've spent to much time writing this up but will like to hear your thoughts on how you think things can be improved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMCBros99 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 · Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Tl;dr Answering topic name, no Link to comment
Milz187 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 · Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Tl;dr Answering topic name, no Thanks for your wisdom and contribution. Link to comment
Grimes Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 · Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Tl;dr If you're not going to read it don't comment. To OP, this issue has been raised many times before, and SR has done very little to change their process. (this has been happening for over a year now) Link to comment
Tanner the Original Scout™ Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 hahno SR is dead. Only mod that does anything is Mattie! and even then... F-o-G is perma-ing first time offenders, OP is as boo-boo as ever, Reddit is still garbage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milz187 Posted January 27, 2015 Author Share Posted January 27, 2015 To OP, this issue has been raised many times before, and SR has done very little to change their process. (this has been happening for over a year now) I think it's better people keep talking about it / throw out suggestions on how to fix it rather than resign to the fact that it's not working and just leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♥Prof. Sugarcube♥ Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 New admins Get rid of Helen, she's done nothing That's all I can think of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Дебра Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 New admins Get rid of Helen, she's done nothing That's all I can think of Get rid of f-o-g too. They don't give one about SteamRep's policies and just ban whenever they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fluffyy Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 hire toughsox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piotr Nieroda Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 hire toughsox. they rejected toughsox... #stupid... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanner the Original Scout™ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 they rejected toughsox... #stupid... Tbh he could've saved SR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senpai Absol~ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 · Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by polar, January 28, 2015 - No reason given Tbh he could've saved SR Yeah Link to comment
thecityburns2day Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 They need to get more staff and remove people who don't do shit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Fondles ツ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 im not surprised they are back logged after all these phishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Cruise NUB Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 im not surprised they are back logged after all these phishers. i thought they dont mark phishers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senpai Absol~ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 i thought they dont mark phishers? they don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVenomWithin Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 hire toughsox. I don't want to get marked thoooo :[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zirune Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 Get rid of f-o-g too. They don't give one about SteamRep's policies and just ban whenever they feel like it. You have now been banned by f-o-g. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AiR²³ Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 I don't want to mention names but i had to deal with certain female members of the outpost/steamrep/(insert another 50 big, time consuming community positions here) staff and they just never are online. I have seen this with numerous communities, once you are admin, you suddenly are a trusted person and the next community/site offers you an admin position. A few years later, your real life has changed, you have absolutely no time to spend on your former hobby yet you still are admin on 20 different websites. Maybe it's time to give new blood a chance... Maybe it is time for some inactive admins to just leave... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milz187 Posted January 28, 2015 Author Share Posted January 28, 2015 Get rid of f-o-g too. They don't give one about SteamRep's policies and just ban whenever they feel like it. I've got an open case f-o-g. With a current issue, a 1st offense and an honest mistake Outpost, BP.TF have given me a 2 week ban... the SteamRep rules state that my issue is a temp caution tag until I speak to a SteamRep admin in which I have. So out op, bp.tf and steamrep my biggest punishment looks to be a 2 week ban but f-o-g can just step in and just give me scammer tags. It's as if I'm in a court room with 4 judges and 3 out of 4 judges (the biggest ones i might add) have stated I won't be marked as a scammer / banned but this new judge I've just heard of can say nah, we don't like you... and overrule all the other judges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Bee Posted January 28, 2015 Share Posted January 28, 2015 The problem with being a fraud prevention group, is that you have to hire trustworthy people. It isn't easy if you want to hire volunteer moderators, since you have to evaluate their ability and integrity in moderation. Remember the Steamrep middleman fiasco? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milz187 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 The problem with being a fraud prevention group, is that you have to hire trustworthy people. It isn't easy if you want to hire volunteer moderators, since you have to evaluate their ability and integrity in moderation. Remember the Steamrep middleman fiasco? I think with a clear cut and outlined process then the community will be able to contribute as an example. (1.) A report is open, there could be a voting system or a group of delegated community members looking at it (2.) Users open the case for review (3.) Judgement (3.A - Phase 1 (Perm Ban Worthy Yes Or No) If there is clear evidence (evidence types should be noted) that the user has scammed. (Highjacked an account, did a PayPal Chargeback, Has traded with SteamRep tagged users 3 times, list other Perm ban offenses) If Yes - Mark the user as a Scammer and leave a note on their Steam profile advising them and warning others that they have been marked as a SteamRep scammer as well as notifying them of the appeal process If No - Continue to (3b) (3b) Should the user be Caution Tagged? (List the reasons and evidence required to mark the user as a Caution Tag) If Yes - Apply caution tag to profile, notify user on their profile and advise of appeal process If No - Close case Obviously there needs to be more details than that, but if things are clear cut then there's going to be no greyness which results in inconsistent bans and people not quiet sure on how to rule a case thus the case is left open for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
New Bee Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 A jury system? It will still fall apart in the same way. The problem with delegated members is that there still needs to be a long and thorough selection process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pew Pew™ Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 With older and advanced people starting to leave TF2, its going to be very hard to select the "jury members." But nonetheless, it could be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milz187 Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 A jury system? It will still fall apart in the same way. The problem with delegated members is that there still needs to be a long and thorough selection process. What I'm saying is that if the banning process is clear into to when a user is to be market or not marked then is just a matter of going through protocol. You don't need to have the level of trust t as is required now since the process and not the moderator determines the outcome. In the current situation I don't see any clear guidelines nothing that is public at least so a lot of it could be judgement based reporting. But build a defined process that covers all scenarios and it's a matter of just going through the steps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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