Suggestion: Here's an idea I had to give more value to refined metal by creating a sink without making it overly complex or gimmicky.

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Right now so many players have two things big relatively useless things in their backpacks (aside from their weapons and a few cosmetics): a buttload of neverending refined metal and a buttload of crates.

 

Refined metal has been pumped into this economy since trading was a thing. It's never stopped and unless Valve decides to mess with the drop limit again, it probably won't ever stop. Right now the only real non-trade uses for refined is to craft it together at a chance at a random hat, or use a small portion of metal to craft a weapon you need. The problem with this is that most traders sell hats around 1.33 - 2 refined and the hats that are within this price range are a vast majority of craftable hats. So by crafting refined together, unless you're really into gambling with bad odds or are trying to create a low craft number hat, there's not much reason to use metal.

 

There's also a buttload of crappy crates that are never going to be opened. They only serve as a memoir of a time past when hype of new items and crates had manipulated us into spending 2.50 only to open something like a strange heavy fists. Though this isn't quite a problem, it's also kind of an eyesore and non functional residue of Valve's attempt to entice and spam players with gambling on opening a crate.

 

SO here's my idea: What if you could use some set amount of metal, let's say four refined, to open a crate. Now WAIT I know that's a sickening and downright horrible idea and many people are going to read that and nothing further but please keep reading some of the limitations and incentives for this that I have in mind.

 

This method of opening crates would elicit a different result than simply using a key. The crate is now subject to completely new unboxing rules. When opening a crate with metal, you void all possibility at an unusual. This would keep this process from effecting the unusual market by flooding it with cheaply unboxed hats. The next rule is that any crate opened via refined will not give you the same chances at the stranges inside. Instead, you'll be given about a 80% chance to get whatever items in the crate that are not strange or strange part, and only about a 19% chance to receive one of the stranges or strange parts within it. That means using refined metal to open a crate will MOSTLY just allow people to receive whatever hat, name tag, or paints are in the crate, with a small chance at the strangers (RIP strange shotgun value), but forfeit the rest of the items. And finally one last big stipulation: You cannot use this method of opening via refined to open any active series crate, rare crate, or any crate that requires a special key. That means no holiday, halloween, salvaged, or other special crates can be opened using this method, keeping this from devaluing any of the items these rare crates contain. It also means new crates can only be opened by keys so the eligible items retain their relative values better until the crate is finally put out of series, in which time it becomes unlockable via metal.

 

I realize that only having a chance at basic items in a crate may not actually inspire many people other than casual players who do not care for trading to occasionally unbox and having to spend nearly 4 refined at the 19% possibility to open strange fists or a 80% chance at some crappy hat may not be incentive enough. There has to also be incentive for your average trader to open these to without wasting their refined just to get a predictable output of one of the two hats a crate contains and maybe a strange, but also this has to implemented carefully to keep this process from simply devaluing most of the items in these crates due to the ease in which refined enters the market.

 

So finally, the moment we've all been waiting for. The 1%... For the remaining 1% I suggest a very wild idea. So risky and so absurd is this idea, that it might just get me exiled from ever posting again. I mean this is fucking straight up wack, but fuck it, I'm going to tell you anyways - nuts on the table and everything...

 

Have a 1% chance to unbox a strangifier for any weapon that already exists in strange form. Any strange weapon...

 

So let's say that you may unbox something like.... Oh I don't know... a Force of Nature strangifier. Well now you can sell it to some FaN enthusiast who wants to turn their Collector's FaN strange, thus creating more possible flashy weapon combinations. But let's say you're fortunate enough to unbox something more useful, like a sticky bomb strangifier. You may decide "hey, I've always wanted a strange sticky gun" and apply it to your normal stock weapon. But you may think "holy shit some trader would die to have this" and trade it for several keys, giving the person you trade it to the ability create a Strange Collector's Professional Festive Stickylauncher (RIP incredibly high priced stranges).

Ok so now that bandaid is ripped off let's move on to the solutions and problems this presents.

• Pros: Besides the obvious pro of being a metal sink, I'm theorizing that the fact that it's a 1% chance atany already strange weapon, it will make it so these specific strangifiers for HIGH valued stranges don't spawn SO often that it kills their value, incentivizes people to burn refined, and gives those poor players who REALLY want a specific strange weapon but cannot because it's so expensive (gunslinger / kritz) the chance to get one. This would also lead to much less worthwhile first generation unusual crates left to open since most players who own them would burn through something like crate 9s at a chance to get a bunch of paint for just a handful of refined. It would also give purpose to all of those crates that everyone has laying around that literally go down to being worth NOTHING. Right now you cannot even sell most of these crates on the market for enough to even make 1 cent steam wallet. This would also put some very new rare items on the market (strange professional vintage lugermorph).

• Cons: The biggest issue would be the devaluation of all stranges as a result of this, but being that a large portion of stranges from normal crates aren't worth much more than a refined or so and cost 4 refined to try every time may help to balance the damage. Also, if Valve would put more chemistry sets out there that require specific stranges to complete, this would help balance their demand by jump starting a strange item sink in conjunction with my suggestion. Another issue is that this may prevent a key from ever going below (or even close to) 4 refined. Why spend 4 refined when you could theoretically buy a key for roughly that much and just open a crate. Well, my solution isn't specifically to lower the price of keys, but rather, to put a buffer on ever growing uselessness for using refined metal. If refined metal grows in value as a result of this and keys lower accordingly, then that would be nice, but it's not my entire goal.

I'm open to suggestions or tweaks for this idea, but please do not turn this thread into a write-up about what's wrong with bp.tf or what your personal solution would be. You can make another thread for that, I'm looking for CC and ideas that expand upon this potential solution. Thanks!

 

tl;dr Allow common normal crates the option of being opened by using 4 refined metal instead of a key. Put GIGANTIC limitations on what these crates can unbox when using this method (no salvages or crates that require a unique key or new crates, only old retired crates) and give them unboxing ratios as such:

• 0% chance at an unusual or strange professional

• 80% chance at whatever hats / tools are in the crate

• 19% chance at the stranges or strange parts

• 1% chance of finding a random strangifier for any weapon that currently comes in strange.

[Дебра]

 

Sorry to crosspost but it's a big one and I don't want to have to reformat it to this forum so I'll link here.

 

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/tf2/comments/2jxquc/suggestion_heres_an_idea_i_had_to_give_more_value/

 

 

tl;dr Allow common normal crates the option of being opened by using 4 refined metal instead of a key. Put GIGANTIC limitations on what these crates can unbox when using this method (no salvages or crates that require a unique key or new crates, only old retired crates) and give them unboxing ratios as such: a 80% chance at whatever hats / tools are in the crate, a 19% chance at the stranges or strange parts but 0% chance at an unusuals or professional kits. And then for the big crazy finally: give a 1% chance of finding a random strangifier for any weapon that currently comes in strange.

 

 

How to kill VALVe's profits in 1 easy step.

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Please explain, if you'd like to go at length about it I'd prefer you respond to reddit. If you just want to put bit sized uninspiring comments I suppose stick to this topic here.

[Дебра]

Please explain, if you'd like to go at length about it I'd prefer you respond to reddit. If you just want to put bit sized uninspiring comments I suppose stick to this topic here.

 

Explain how having a free key that can uncrate will help VALVe at all? Noobs don't uncrate for unusuals, they uncrate for a hat. If they can uncrate for half price explain why the heck they would buy a key? Also paints will all be 1.33 ref, all stranges will be 0.66 ref and 90% of crate cosmetics will be 1 ref.

[SirSkelly]

Explain how having a free key that can uncrate will help VALVe at all? Noobs don't uncrate for unusuals, they uncrate for a hat. If they can uncrate for half price explain why the heck they would buy a key?

 

The noobs will use all their spare metal they have, perhaps crafting their hats they dont like, then they will buy keys from volvo. Also it will give poor noobs that werent planning or can't buy keys a chance to "feel the thrill"

 

On a side note, I think its a good idea because maybe nubs will enjoy unboxing these crates, so they will pay real money to unbox acutual crates.

[Дебра]

The noobs will use all their spare metal they have, perhaps crafting their hats they dont like, then they will buy keys from volvo. Also it will give poor noobs that werent planning or can't buy keys a chance to "feel the thrill"

 

On a side note, I think its a good idea because maybe nubs will enjoy unboxing these crates, so they will pay real money to unbox acutual crates.

 

These will be actual crates. It's like asking someone if they would buy a product  for $99.99 from shop A or for $49.99 from shop B.

[3.50]

Uh, no.

 

Valve's already had a better idea to raise the value of metal, albeit temporarily: Bread Boxes. (Debatable how good that idea actually was, but it didn't cost them anything or take a bite out of their key sales)

 

Also, the unusuals and pro. KS kits are pretty much the main reason most people open normal crates. Remove the unusual chance and most people wouldn't look at a crate twice, I think...

[SirSkelly]

These will be actual crates. It's like asking someone if they would buy a product  for $99.99 from shop A or for $49.99 from shop B.

 

Well still. I guess this applies more to poor IRL F2P noobs.

[Myles314]

I just got here and I am pretty sure that would be a terrible idea, lol.

[Grimes]

The only way to make refined useful without fucking the economy is by adding a collectors refined chemistry set.

 

Edit: It probably still would fuck the economy, but not as badly.

[SirSkelly]

Heres my opinion: I think its a good idea except, unusual should not be unboxable if you use this method. It should be you craft a "special key" and use it to unbox. The key then would have to be untradeable, because that would ruin the economy. I think 3-4 ref is a good value because keep in mind, 99% of the stuff in crates is garbage, but its still good to have (Stranges and Craft hats). I see the whole downside to either buying a key now for $2.50 from Valve, or you could wait a few weeks, craft your drops and unbox, but isn't that just what all the F2P mobile games are?

[M.G.B.]

The only way to make refined useful without fucking the economy is by adding a collectors refined chemistry set.

 

Edit: It probably still would fuck the economy, but not as badly.

200 refined metal= 1 collectors refined

200 c. refined = 1 collectors key

ez metal sink

[Дебра]

Heres my opinion: I think its a good idea except, unusual should not be unboxable if you use this method. It should be you craft a "special key" and use it to unbox. The key then would have to be untradeable, because that would ruin the economy. I think 3-4 ref is a good value because keep in mind, 99% of the stuff in crates is garbage, but its still good to have (Stranges and Craft hats). I see the whole downside to either buying a key now for $2.50 from Valve, or you could wait a few weeks, craft your drops and unbox, but isn't that just what all the F2P mobile games are?

 

99% of stuff might be garbage, paints are not.

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Explain how having a free key that can uncrate will help VALVe at all? Noobs don't uncrate for unusuals, they uncrate for a hat. If they can uncrate for half price explain why the heck they would buy a key? Also paints will all be 1.33 ref, all stranges will be 0.66 ref and 90% of crate cosmetics will be 1 ref.

God I really hate when people obviously don't read and I have to hold their hands to understand my suggestion by forcing me to defend.

 

First off, not a free key, not a key at all. keys open unusuals, that's why people love them, stranges are nice but unusuals are the big incentive, take that away and you've neutered the demand for opening a crate.

And yes, Noobs occasionally don't even know unusuals exist, so some of them occasionally buy a key and open a crate but MANY of them (and I'm thinking you haven't considered how many of these players like this there are) don't spend a fucking penny and don't open anything and don't plan on it. Now they can and now they've been given the emotional hook that Valve uses to get people into the trading / unboxing high.

 

Oh and I'm guessing you didn't read the part where new crates and rare crates won't allow you to unbox. Valve is making their money off of steam market and events in which people buy up thousands of halloween and limited keys and mass unbox. I'm pretty sure sacrificing those 20 or so newbs a day who decide to randomly buy a crate from mannco with the motivation to unbox a shit crate should be in exchanged for a more strong currency in general and it also, like I said, is training wheels for most of these players to get them into the idea of trying for the real thing.

 

And then finally how are you getting these numbers? It takes 4 refined to open a crate and you have a 15% chance at the unusuals when normally it's something like 80%. Keys cost 9 refined right now. That's worse price to profit ability than buying a key from mannco and fucking opening a crate yourself. Do you think the value of most stranges is simply due to their stats? Shit now, a LOT of it has to do with how many exist sure, but most has to do with their function. NO one wants a strange heavy fists. And finally about the paints, i addressed this in another reply on reddit: "So basically what you're saying is that because white / black / and pink paints could fall in value from this (and keep in mind that series 1 crates cost a whole fucking key now to trade for and are very very hard to find) that it's not worth it to implement something that creates a viable use for refined metal, old crates, and puts new high tier items on the market because "it will hurt the value of some paint".

How is this a problem?"

[Дебра]

God I really hate when people obviously don't read and I have to hold their hands to understand my suggestion by forcing me to defend.

 

First off, not a free key, not a key at all. keys open unusuals, that's why people love them, stranges are nice but unusuals are the big incentive, take that away and you've neutered the demand for opening a crate.

And yes, Noobs occasionally don't even know unusuals exist, so some of them occasionally buy a key and open a crate but MANY of them (and I'm thinking you haven't considered how many of these players like this there are) don't spend a fucking penny and don't open anything and don't plan on it. Now they can and now they've been given the emotional hook that Valve uses to get people into the trading / unboxing high.

 

Oh and I'm guessing you didn't read the part where new crates and rare crates won't allow you to unbox. Valve is making their money off of steam market and events in which people buy up thousands of halloween and limited keys and mass unbox. I'm pretty sure sacrificing those 20 or so newbs a day who decide to randomly buy a crate from mannco with the motivation to unbox a shit crate should be in exchanged for a more strong currency in general and it also, like I said, is training wheels for most of these players to get them into the idea of trying for the real thing.

 

And then finally how are you getting these numbers? It takes 4 refined to open a crate and you have a 15% chance at the unusuals when normally it's something like 80%. Keys cost 9 refined right now. That's worse price to profit ability than buying a key from mannco and fucking opening a crate yourself. Do you think the value of most stranges is simply due to their stats? Shit now, a LOT of it has to do with how many exist sure, but most has to do with their function. NO one wants a strange heavy fists. And finally about the paints, i addressed this in another reply on reddit: "So basically what you're saying is that because white / black / and pink paints could fall in value from this (and keep in mind that series 1 crates cost a whole fucking key now to trade for and are very very hard to find) that it's not worth it to implement something that creates a viable use for refined metal, old crates, and puts new high tier items on the market because "it will hurt the value of some paint".

How is this a problem?"

 

This silly paint thing is worth $2 to VALVe on their silly store thing where they make this silly money thing.

[LookAtMyChicken]

Sorry, TL;DR most, nothing personal.

 

The only thing that valve should do to restore any value to weapons, metal, hats is : More Collector's Sets, More Chemistry Sets, More craftable consumables (think breadboxes.)

 

Dasit.

[Hipsta Jayzus]

This silly paint thing is worth $2 to VALVe on their silly store thing where they make this silly money thing.

the kind of person who's willing to buy paint from the mannco store isn't the kind of person who's going to trade for a bunch of series 1 crates and mass unbox them using refined.

[3.50]

2 layz to actually write here, so go read on reddit or something

 

[...]

 

God I really hate when people obviously don't read and I have to hold their hands to understand my suggestion by forcing me to defend.

Most people are not going to follow links to some shitty corner of the interwebs (And Reddit is absolutely that) in order to read a bad argument about a bad idea.

 

People have been asking for a way to use metal to open crates for years, and the only way you'll ever be able to use metal to open a crate is to trade the metal for a key.

 

That is, unless you count things like Bread Boxes, which could be fabricated from only metal, have a very limited item selection including no unusuals, can be opened without a key, and already exist.

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Most people are not going to follow links to some shitty corner of the interwebs (And Reddit is absolutely that) in order to read a bad argument about a bad idea.

 

People have been asking for a way to use metal to open crates for years, and the only way you'll ever be able to use metal to open a crate is to trade the metal for a key.

 

That is, unless you count things like Bread Boxes, which could be fabricated from only metal, have a very limited item selection including no unusuals, can be opened without a key, and already exist.

 

Oh so you actually read everything I posted and didn't use some vague idea of hypocrisy you found in this forum alone in order to try to cut my idea down and disregard my suggestion?

[Hipsta Jayzus]

Most people are not going to follow links to some shitty corner of the interwebs (And Reddit is absolutely that) in order to read a bad argument about a bad idea.

 

People have been asking for a way to use metal to open crates for years, and the only way you'll ever be able to use metal to open a crate is to trade the metal for a key.

 

That is, unless you count things like Bread Boxes, which could be fabricated from only metal, have a very limited item selection including no unusuals, can be opened without a key, and already exist.

Ok fine. Edited read my OP now. 

I'm not lazy I wrote a fucking novel on this shit and submitted it to reddit. Here have your cake.

[Wesley]

so basicly what this will lead to is

• more stranges
• more paints
• more strange parts
• more hats/miscs
• less low series crates
• less refined
• random stranges with the 1% thingy

Say these will be mass unboxed.

the low series crates will be unboxed for paints mainly, leading to a drop in price for all unboxable paints, low series crates only give first gens, but if they get used up the amount of first gens being able to come on the market will drop alot, making those unusuals rise in value.

 

There will be alot more hats/miscs, which will lead to people having more duplicates and eventually to people crafting those away to get other hats/miscs, dropping the price of those.

 

Since theres a 80% to get a hat/misc/strange part in crates like 42, there will be alot more strange part unboxes, where as those will drop too.

 

yes, there will be less refined in existence, but it will kill most of the market in the long run, making the market divided in low stranges/craftable hats/miscs/parts, middle tier limited items (big kill, lugermorph etc) and unusuals most likely being even more unobtainable for most than currently.

[Дебра]

the kind of person who's willing to buy paint from the mannco store isn't the kind of person who's going to trade for a bunch of series 1 crates and mass unbox them using refined.

The kind of person who owns refined is likely to know what trading is, either that or they have played for 9 months and crafted all their drops away.

[3.50]

Oh so you actually read everything I posted and didn't use some vague idea of hypocrisy you found in this forum alone in order to try to cut my idea down and disregard my suggestion?

No, I refused to follow your link to some shitty corner of the interwebs, and I disregarded it because people have been spending the past 5+ years putting forth every imaginable scenario wherein you use metal to open crates, and none of their ideas were good enough to implement. That may be prejudice, but hypocrisy? How?

 

Sorry, but just like someone saying that the Stickybomb Launcher needs buffs wouldn't be taken seriously, I can tell at a glance that your idea isn't original, and it isn't good enough to be taken seriously. No offense, but this horse died years ago and has been beaten continually ever since. And I'm not following a link and reading a Reddit idiot-spamfest just to have my opinion confirmed.

[3.50]

 Here have your cake.

Thanks you. I just wanted cake, I didn't think it was too much to ask :/

[Hipsta Jayzus]

No, I refused to follow your link to some shitty corner of the interwebs, and I disregarded it because people have been spending the past 5+ years putting forth every imaginable scenario wherein you use metal to open crates, and none of their ideas were good enough to implement. That may be prejudice, but hypocrisy? How?

 

Sorry, but just like someone saying that the Stickybomb Launcher needs buffs wouldn't be taken seriously, I can tell at a glance that your idea isn't original, and it isn't good enough to be taken seriously. No offense, but this horse died years ago and has been beaten continually ever since. And I'm not following a link and reading a Reddit idiot-spamfest just to have my opinion confirmed.

 

Oh I see, you're a shitposter. Sorry I don't post on bp.tf often enough to be able to spot shitposters like I can on other forums.