Teh Betmon Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 The Muslim Council of Britain once again condemned the actions of the so called "Islamic State in Syria and the Levant", ISIS. Today we express once again our rebuke of this reprehensible organisation. We are horrified at the abhorrent murder of James Foley, a reporter who initially went to the region to expose the human rights abuses of the Syrian regime. ISIS has murdered this man for no reason at all. Each day ISIS seeks to carry out an act more barbarous than the day before, craving the oxygen of publicity to give credibility to their heinous acts. We condemn unreservedly their psychopathic violence, whether it is on minorities, on civilians, or on fellow Muslims. The MCB expressed the British Muslim community's common censure of the group as early as June, and called for joint action to ensure the poison of extremism and sectarianism is not injected into our communities. ISIS does not speak for Islam, and has been repudiated by all Muslims. Their message only appeals to those who are easily duped by their twisted message purporting to be Islam. They seek to glamorize their violence, and unfortunately, the media has a part to play in adding to that glamour. We urge the media in refraining from giving them any further undue exposure beyond conventional reporting. And we urge Muslim communities to re-double their efforts in coming together, condemning the barbarity of ISIS and persuading those gullible enough to take in their message that they are on a path to futility. Source: http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/British-Muslims-Condemn-Barbarity-ISIS/story-22789193-detail/story.html More articles: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/qasim-rashid/ramadan-message-isis_b_5611232.html (Plenty of Quran/hadith quotes in here) http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/08/12/why-muslims-hate-terrorism-more.html http://www.istreetresearch.com/grand-mufti-of-saudi-condemns-isis-militants-as-number-1-enemy-of-islam/255161/ Posting this to clarify to the viewers that ISIS does not represent islam as many of us think. have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistolvania Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In fact, they aren't muslims at all. There's at least one Hadith in the Quran which states that wahhabists are not considered muslims. It's annoying to see neo-nazism breed further across Europe lately with the justification that Islam is horrible because of IS/ISIL/ISIS' actions, when they are nothing else than typical psychopathic right-wing imperialists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KERPKEK Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 In fact, they aren't muslims at all. There's at least one Hadith in the Quran which states that wahhabists are not considered muslims. It's annoying to see neo-nazism breed further across Europe lately with the justification that Islam is horrible because of IS/ISIL/ISIS' actions, when they are nothing else than typical psychopathic right-wing imperialists. Couldn't have said it better myself. Same shit is happening here in North America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted August 21, 2014 Share Posted August 21, 2014 I understand how you feel and, yeah, we know they don't represent Muslim's. What I want to know is will middle east countries step up and form a military coalition to wipe them out. It would be SOOOO cool to actually see the region cooperate and solve this. Islamic nations must stand up and end this sort of thing themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I find it very interesting that they want the news media to stop covering this stuff. Actually, interesting isn't the right word. I find it disturbing. Well anyway, it seems like a nice message. I want to think that it's genuine. I just wish we could skip all the bullshit and say "let's just not have religion anymore, because faith is simply stupid and irrational and it can lead to shit like this". The truth is that ISIS is a product of the environment it sprouted up in (a large part of the blame for shaping that environment falls at the feet of american intervention, btw). While we do see some radicals in the more civilized western countries, something like ISIS could never be birthed there. It's been said before by smarter people than me, but as civilization progresses, it forces people within religions to "grow up" and adopt more civilized behavior. It's a survival mechanism. What we're seeing here is the voice of more westernised muslims who are acting in self-preservation. Nothing more. Some of them may be consciously aware of it, but many of them probably don't even realize it on a conscious level. Christians do the same thing. I've seen it too many times, and I've done it myself when I was a christian. It's mental gymnastics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh Betmon Posted August 22, 2014 Author Share Posted August 22, 2014 I just wish we could skip all the bullshit and say "let's just not have religion anymore, because faith is simply stupid and irrational and it can lead to shit like this". honestly, i find that religions are innocent of what's happening, i mean look at the link with hadith quotes, its all talking about protecting people, muslims and non-muslims. christians do have similar teachings too. for me, it looks like the people's fault more than religions due to misunderstanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 honestly, i find that religions are innocent of what's happening, i mean look at the link with hadith quotes, its all talking about protecting people, muslims and non-muslims. christians do have similar teachings too. for me, it looks like the people's fault more than religions due to misunderstanding. Yes, these people would probably fight about something else if religion didn't exist, but that doesn't mean that religion wasn't a major cause of this and many other conflicts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The truth is that ISIS is a product of the environment it sprouted up in (a large part of the blame for shaping that environment falls at the feet of american intervention, btw). While we do see some radicals in the more civilized western countries, something like ISIS could never be birthed there. It's been said before by smarter people than me, but as civilization progresses, it forces people within religions to "grow up" and adopt more civilized behavior. It's a survival mechanism. I hate to disagree but ISIS is the product of the Syrian revolution. The anti Assad forces allowed hyper radicalized militants in to join the revolution because they needed people who were able to fight at a high level. This was a desperate move because the West did not intervene. It is also rumored that Saudi Arabia actually funded the early versions of this before it broke out into a wider area. At that time there were fears that something like ISIS could happen but this was not widely discussed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I hate to disagree but ISIS is the product of the Syrian revolution. The anti Assad forces allowed hyper radicalized militants in to join the revolution because they needed people who were able to fight at a high level. This was a desperate move because the West did not intervene. It is also rumored that Saudi Arabia actually funded the early versions of this before it broke out into a wider area. At that time there were fears that something like ISIS could happen but this was not widely discussed. Interesting, but I was referring to american intervention in iraq which set up an impotent government and a military force which was inept and corrupt, and who literally laid down their weapons and ran away even though they massively outnumbered isis initially. In other words, american intervention helped lead to a situation which isis was able to exploit in order to grab territory and weapons and become powerful. I do think it's important to point out that isis are in fact fundamentalist muslims establishing an islamic state, and the U.S. did not make them that way. Their religion did. But as a result of U.S. intervention in iraq, in effect, we did end up helping to supply them with weapons and equipment and territory to conquer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laces115 Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 People have, and always will generalize a group of people into common assumptions (religion, in this case). It's why things like racism, bigotry, and stereotypes exist in the first place, and continue to exist as such. There is even a term now for people who fear and hate Muslims in general: Islamophobia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia I only hope one day, people will stop generalizing and realize that not everyone in the same group thinks the same way about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klappar Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 I'm confused why they don't condemn hamas. People have, and always will generalize a group of people into common assumptions (religion, in this case). It's why things like racism, bigotry, and stereotypes exist in the first place, and continue to exist as such. There is even a term now for people who fear and hate Muslims in general: Islamophobia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia I only hope one day, people will stop generalizing and realize that not everyone in the same group thinks the same way about things. pfft. nobody hates muslims/islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Interesting, but I was referring to american intervention in iraq which set up an impotent government and a military force which was inept and corrupt, and who literally laid down their weapons and ran away even though they massively outnumbered isis initially. In other words, american intervention helped lead to a situation which isis was able to exploit in order to grab territory and weapons and become powerful. I do think it's important to point out that isis are in fact fundamentalist muslims establishing an islamic state, and the U.S. did not make them that way. Their religion did. But as a result of U.S. intervention in iraq, in effect, we did end up helping to supply them with weapons and equipment and territory to conquer. Would ISIS have defeated Saddam if he were in power? Very likely. Would the Arab spring have occurred without the US invading Iraq? Idk. Too many variables to trace back that far. I have heard this commentary before and it doesn't work. Causality. People have, and always will generalize a group of people into common assumptions (religion, in this case). It's why things like racism, bigotry, and stereotypes exist in the first place, and continue to exist as such. There is even a term now for people who fear and hate Muslims in general: Islamophobia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia I only hope one day, people will stop generalizing and realize that not everyone in the same group thinks the same way about things. All conflict in the Middle East is about the two main sects of the religion and their extremes. https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSACKdmsoNCjVSBcnvd46GCpqxTSanOXAqiEXSR8GJgo1Juo-KHCelLA2I That is how it breaks down. And my original thread about this http://forums.backpack.tf/index.php?/topic/2859-syria/?hl=syria Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 People have, and always will generalize a group of people into common assumptions (religion, in this case). It's why things like racism, bigotry, and stereotypes exist in the first place, and continue to exist as such. There is even a term now for people who fear and hate Muslims in general: Islamophobia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamophobia I only hope one day, people will stop generalizing and realize that not everyone in the same group thinks the same way about things. Well that's a convenient way to avoid all criticism and discredit/ostracise critics. Just call people bigots and racists, and anything that they say can automatically be dismissed out of hand. You're showing a very clear demonstration of hypocrisy; you're telling people not to stereotype and generalize while you yourself are stereotyping and generalizing others. Not all muslims are the same. Nobody here said they were! You're attacking an imaginary enemy. It's religion, faith, and unwarranted violence and aggression that I don't like. Islam just happens to be the biggest game in town when it comes to ALL of those things (inb4 yet another use of the "no true scottsman" fallacy...). Here, they sort of cover this subject about 2/3rds of the way through a program I recently watched: In that video, they briefly discuss how it's become normal and acceptable for people to claim the critics of islam are bigots and racists who think all muslims are the same. Skip to around the 21 minute mark if you don't feel like watching the whole video, and continue watching for about 3-4 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laces115 Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Well that's a convenient way to avoid all criticism and discredit/ostracise critics. Just call people bigots and racists, and anything that they say can automatically be dismissed out of hand. You're showing a very clear demonstration of hypocrisy; you're telling people not to stereotype and generalize while you yourself are stereotyping and generalizing others. Not all muslims are the same. Nobody here said they were! You're attacking an imaginary enemy. It's religion, faith, and unwarranted violence and aggression that I don't like. Islam just happens to be the biggest game in town when it comes to ALL of those things (inb4 yet another use of the "no true scottsman" fallacy...). Here, they sort of cover this subject about 2/3rds of the way through a program I recently watched: In that video, they briefly discuss how it's become normal and acceptable for people to claim the critics of islam are bigots and racists who think all muslims are the same. Skip to around the 21 minute mark if you don't feel like watching the whole video, and continue watching for about 3-4 minutes. Though I was not intending to say that all the criticisms of the violent sects. of Islam couldn't be judged because of being considered 'bigotry', I do accept that I worded it in a way that conveyed that idea. My apologies, I understand your point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heated Bread Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 Though I was not intending to say that all the criticisms of the violent sects. of Islam couldn't be judged because of being considered 'bigotry', I do accept that I worded it in a way that conveyed that idea. My apologies, I understand your point. That was too nice! What is the world coming to? At least insult my mother or something! Just so I feel normal. xD j/k No but in all seriousness I fell a little bad for incorrectly characterizing your post as being... shall we say more broad sweeping than you intended. Sorry, man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laces115 Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 That was too nice! What is the world coming to? At least insult my mother or something! Just so I feel normal. xD j/k No but in all seriousness I fell a little bad for incorrectly characterizing your post as being... shall we say more broad sweeping than you intended. Sorry, man. LOL! Nah it's okay. It was honestly completely understandable that you would interpret it that way, considering my wording. I wasn't thinking of that perspective when I was writing it, truth be told. My bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Interestingly, an anti assad, al-Qaeda group, have released an american journalist that was being held in Syria. Apparently, they did this to signal thier separation from fellow anti assad group ISIS. Both groups are sunni based, with assad Iran, iraq being mostly shia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 Interestingly, an anti assad, al-Qaeda group, have released an american journalist that was being held in Syria. Apparently, they did this to signal thier separation from fellow anti assad group ISIS. Both groups are sunni based, with assad Iran, iraq being mostly shia. So basically ISIS are too fucked up for al-Qaeda? jeez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cedarium Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 So basically ISIS are too fucked up for al-Qaeda? jeez you know somethings up when something is too messed up for a terrorist group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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