BlaqkAudio Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 My bible knowledge is a little rusty. Haven't gone to church in a year now so if I happen to be wrong in whatever I say, please correct me. Thanks! So we've all heard by now that Adam and Eve were the world's first humans on Earth. They sinned and get kicked out of the garden of eden. They then had two kids, Cain and Abel. Cain then killed Abel out of jealousy. Here's the interesting part tho, God condemns Cain with a scar on his face/head so that any person that finds him will keep him as a slave. "...so that any person that finds him..." Cain wanders around the desert for a while before he is found by someone that takes him as a slave. (This is where I start forgetting most of what happens). If my memory's right, he was a slave for a few years and then later gets released. Gets married and has kids. So what I'm saying is, was Adam and Eve really the foundation of the world's family tree? Did God decide to make more humans after? Or were they just already there? I guess this could leave the incest theory out. I remember asking a teacher at my church about that and he said that there could've been another time of life before Adam and Eve. (<- wat???) And that is the possible reason of there being more humans out there in the world during that time. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seminal Inhalation Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Wouldn't that mean we're all related. We're all having distant incest with one another, Is this why humans are so fucked up? I don't understand anything anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NecroTed Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 · Hidden by cleverpun, April 25, 2014 - Spam Hidden by cleverpun, April 25, 2014 - Spam Proof aliens exist jk Link to comment
whopz Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Since Eve had no girls, we can only assume the human race is a direct result of mass incest, or that the story is completely made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Slaver's probably meant to be a Roman or Phoenician. Either way, the Israelites hated both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punishment_Fatal Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Here's the interesting part tho, God condemns Abel with a scar on his face/head so that any person that finds him will keep him as a slave. First, I think God condemned Cain with a scar and not Abel. Second, I thought the scar went on Cain's body that whoever does wrong to Cain will have something 7x worse happen to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjon123 Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Cain married his sister or niece. Close relative relationships were common at the time of Abraham. In-fact, Abraham himself married his half-sister and his son Isaac married some close cousin or something like that (I dont remember the relationship exactly). You have to understand that the closer you get to Adam and Eve, the fewer mutations there were in humans. Inter-family relationships created far far fewer problems back then as they do now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professional Map Painter Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 You have to understand that the closer you get to Adam and Eve, the fewer mutations there were in humans. Inter-family relationships created far far fewer problems back then as they do now. Ptolemaic/Zoroastrian incest would say otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whopz Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 That's a load of unsubstantiated crap with no evidence. You have this unique ability to argue where you spitball so many ideas that a rebuttal becomes difficult since it's hard to know where to start. Even if this story, which the vast majority of people in the world (even fundamentalists) know isn't meant to be taken literally, you start talking about the changes in the human gene pool since this made up stretch of time as if you actually know about it! There has never been any evidence for Cain having a wife. If he had a wife, there's no evidence that the wife was related to him. This tells us that Cain either enjoyed incest with unspecified family members, or that other humans existed at the same time, outside of Adam & Eve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Radiated Banana Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 aliens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 The section about the creation of man: 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.†27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. The idea here is that God made mankind, so many people at once. Adam and Eve would not be the first but 2 of many. Their offspring would then marry from the many people around them. This is how I interpret the creation text. Jjon brings in an interesting point in this story. If we say that Adam and Eve were made somehow different than the rest of humanity, more perfect. This can account for the extra long life that becomes less so as generations pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
puddingkip Posted April 25, 2014 Share Posted April 25, 2014 Ptolemaic/Zoroastrian incest would say otherwise. Ptolemaic is mostly because it happened 20 generations in a row. Besides, incest doesn't lead to diseases or anything. It just increases the chances of having odd recessive genes which can lead to diseases/mutations. But incest can go right forever theoretically, as long as the first two were perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whopz Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 you guys can't pick and choose the science as you like. it's absolutely ridiculous to use genetics as a basis for human ancestry since everything we currently know about genetics directly contradicts basically everything about the hypothesis of adam and eve. this is an example of cognitive dissonance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimes Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Cain married his sister or niece. Close relative relationships were common at the time of Abraham. In-fact, Abraham himself married his half-sister and his son Isaac married some close cousin or something like that (I dont remember the relationship exactly). You have to understand that the closer you get to Adam and Eve, the fewer mutations there were in humans. Inter-family relationships created far far fewer problems back then as they do now. This is assuming these stories are true of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 you guys can't pick and choose the science as you like. it's absolutely ridiculous to use genetics as a basis for human ancestry since everything we currently know about genetics directly contradicts basically everything about the hypothesis of adam and eve. this is an example of cognitive dissonance To whom are you speaking and about what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Cain married his sister or niece. Close relative relationships were common at the time of Abraham. In-fact, Abraham himself married his half-sister and his son Isaac married some close cousin or something like that (I dont remember the relationship exactly). You have to understand that the closer you get to Adam and Eve, the fewer mutations there were in humans. Inter-family relationships created far far fewer problems back then as they do now. Before Cain was sent away after murdering his brother, he pleaded with God saying that whenever other men find him they will kill him. Obviously this means that there were other people living in that time for why would he be afraid of his younger siblings. He was being sent out into the wilderness. If he was going into empty land far away there is no need to be afraid. It would be more likely that he married someone who was out there as it only mentions him laying with his wife and having children after he us sent away. Adam and eve would not give him a daughter after God punished him for killing their other son. Cmon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjjon123 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Before Cain was sent away after murdering his brother, he pleaded with God saying that whenever other men find him they will kill him. Obviously this means that there were other people living in that time for why would he be afraid of his younger siblings. He was being sent out into the wilderness. If he was going into empty land far away there is no need to be afraid. It would be more likely that he married someone who was out there as it only mentions him laying with his wife and having children after he us sent away. Adam and eve would not give him a daughter after God punished him for killing their other son. Cmon. No where does it saw how old Cain and Abel were when everything happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC22 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Since when is the Bible supposed to make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 No where does it saw how old Cain and Abel were when everything happened. What relevance does this have to my statement? Look, people existed well before Adam and Eve. It was not possible for the western hemisphere to have been populated by pacific island cultures before 400 Ad and no one else before them navigated the ocean. If someone had then they would colonized the islands in the same way. We also know that the Olmec predate 400 bc. The most logical means for people to have made it here then is the Berengia Land Bridge which could not be crossed any later than 5000 bc with the most likely crossing period set to 10,000 bc. Along with that, genetic information shows that all Native Americans trace back to a single Eastern Siberian culture. One does not need to believe in evolution to see the Bible breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whopz Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 he's using a debating technique called reductio ad absurdum (from the latin: reductionist to the point of absurdity) because he literally has no argument other than irrelevant random statements where does that claim come from (re: native americans)? never heard it but it wouldn't surprise me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zcrab Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 There are tons of stuff that can easily be quistioned, like how Abraham got 175 Years old. Best to do is, let it be, let the Christians have their belief and leave us alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 he's using a debating technique called reductio ad absurdum (from the latin: reductionist to the point of absurdity) because he literally has no argument other than irrelevant random statements where does that claim come from (re: native americans)? never heard it but it wouldn't surprise me Use the quote button. I never know who you are talking to or about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whopz Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 @jjj guy. he feels threatened by getting caught out so he goes off on an even more nonsensical argument in the hope that people just stop talking about how wrong he was just a few posts back pages of posts tearing what i say to shreds? time to argue about cain's age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splat Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I always thought that non-fundimentalist churches actually didn't believe in these and literally dismissed them as parables/faerie stories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F CHARLIE Posted May 4, 2014 Share Posted May 4, 2014 No where does it saw how old Cain and Abel were when everything happened. The bible also does not mention anything about whom he married but you assume it was a relative. When the early part of the bible was written by Moses it had already been established that these kinds of relationships were not to be allowed. he's using a debating technique called reductio ad absurdum (from the latin: reductionist to the point of absurdity) because he literally has no argument other than irrelevant random statements where does that claim come from (re: native americans)? never heard it but it wouldn't surprise me He us not using that technique ay all and again, use the quote function so some can see you are directing to statement at them. This is not a claim as far as I know it has been confirmed by genetic tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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